Im a newbie and i need help with planning my system

[russ]

This is something one of the manuals had said about solar power. I downloaded about 6 different manuals on information about solar systems.

You found some of the 75% BS stuff available on the net I guess.

[shadowaxe356]

Weakest panel? What and why is that?

This is something one of the manuals had said about solar power. I downloaded about 6 different manuals on information about solar systems.

[SunEagle]

It is kind of sad that the discussion keeps getting side tracked concerning micro processors and shade.

The point is the system the OP wants is HUGE. He wants something > 30kw tied to the grid, with batteries and not use a generator.

Does anyone see a problem with this concept? Even with a 48 volt battery system we are talking about 625 amps of charge controllers (30,000 watts / 48 volts = 625 amps).

I don't care if he can find panels < $1/watt the cost for panels, CC's, batteries, etc. will still be in excess of $50,000.

[inetdog]

If I use a central inverter all my power will be as strong as my weekest panel right?

No, not right.
Each commercial panel has bypass diodes in it that will effectively bypass it (hence the name) when it cannot produce as much current at the rest of the string.
That means that the new string Vmp voltage will be that of the remaining panels, minus a few volts for losses in the bypass diodes.
You will not lose the power of the entire string.
On the other hand, if you have two strings in parallel into one MPPT input and only one string is partially shaded, the shaded string will only contribute when it is operating at the same voltage as the unshaded string. That means that in that specific case, you will likely get from that string only the limited amount of current that the shaded panel(s) can provide.

[russ]

If I use a central inverter all my power will be as strong as my weekest panel right?

Weakest panel? What and why is that?

[shadowaxe356]

NOT A BIT.

Micro inverters are for tileing your roof with PV, and you have unavoidable shadows that move across it. The shadow will deactivate a "String" inverter, but micro inverters just shut off sequentially as the shadow comes and goes.

If I use a central inverter all my power will be as strong as my weekest panel right?

[Mike90250]

In Ohio the weather is bipolar, are high in my city was 63 F and a low of -15 cloud cover varied would micros help in this instance?

NOT A BIT.

Micro inverters are for tileing your roof with PV, and you have unavoidable shadows that move across it. The shadow will deactivate a "String" inverter, but micro inverters just shut off sequentially as the shadow comes and goes.

[shadowaxe356]

Mixing
No need to mix, solar panels in the shade are pointless, so don't put them there.

but, no, you can't mix micro-inverter with hybrid battery systems. (you could possibly AC couple them, but it all falls apart when you have a good sunny day and the micros boil your batteries because you have no way to control their output)
SMA has a system that might mix their hybrid inverter, with micro inverters, as the batteries charge up, the inverter shifts frequency and that starts to knock the micros off-line..

But why waste a panel in shade? There are also some reliability questions with the micro's too, which are starting to show up in the field.

/////


Wattage and hours

Pumps are high power devices, my 1/2 hp pump consumes 1,000 watts, so I only run it on sunny days.
1,000 watts for 3 hours, and it consumes 3Kwh of power.

40 watts of lighting, on for 5 hours = 200 watt hours ( or .2Kwh)

In Ohio the weather is bipolar, are high in my city was 63 F and a low of -15 cloud cover varied would micros help in this instance?

[shadowaxe356]

That would be a huge mistake on you rpart and a very expensive lesson tou will not like one little bit as it will cost you thousands of dollars.

Any power coming from batteries will cost you roughly 10 times more than buying it from the power company. Used infrequently as you intend can be up to 100 times more expensive. Be careful what you ask for.

Are car batterys an ok deep cell to use? I really want the ability to switch if theirs a power outage we have had at least once a year and it always lasts a week or so.

also dose anyone know if you can use multiple inverters to match voltage/amp output from panels or do you have to use one unit.

[Sunking]

I would prefure to have a hybrid system so that i can switch off grid (if needed).

That would be a huge mistake on you rpart and a very expensive lesson tou will not like one little bit as it will cost you thousands of dollars.

Any power coming from batteries will cost you roughly 10 times more than buying it from the power company. Used infrequently as you intend can be up to 100 times more expensive. Be careful what you ask for.

[Mike90250]

Mixing
No need to mix, solar panels in the shade are pointless, so don't put them there.

but, no, you can't mix micro-inverter with hybrid battery systems. (you could possibly AC couple them, but it all falls apart when you have a good sunny day and the micros boil your batteries because you have no way to control their output)
SMA has a system that might mix their hybrid inverter, with micro inverters, as the batteries charge up, the inverter shifts frequency and that starts to knock the micros off-line..

But why waste a panel in shade? There are also some reliability questions with the micro's too, which are starting to show up in the field.

/////


Wattage and hours

Pumps are high power devices, my 1/2 hp pump consumes 1,000 watts, so I only run it on sunny days.
1,000 watts for 3 hours, and it consumes 3Kwh of power.

40 watts of lighting, on for 5 hours = 200 watt hours ( or .2Kwh)

[J.P.M.]

KW= 1000w and KWH is how many KW get ran an hour (most likely a total due to 1kw being a lot for an appliance) if there's more to this please explaine

Pardon my butting in here. Since you ask, and FWIW, I'll offer a respectful attempt at an explanation.

I appreciate the confusion that caused the post about units. The original post seemed to not use the proper, or correct unit convention(s), or the appropriate, conventional and respectful capitalization as is common for that matter. This seems like separating fly crap from pepper until one realizes that incorrect use of what is usually understood can cause confusion and mistakes. Also, it probably does not add to some readers'/responders' level of confidence in the poster's level of sophistication about the subject. Some with such an opinion may choose to not to indulge in what they may consider a waste their time. I'd simply say thank you for pointing out my error(s), correct for the future, and move on.

Take what you need/like. Scrap the rest.

[shadowaxe356]

Your battery based system will cost much more than power from the power company. Look at your numbers closely before buying anything. You might also want to learn the difference between a kW (kilowatt) and a kWh (kilowatt hour). It is an important distinction.

KW= 1000w and KWH is how many KW get ran an hour (most likely a total due to 1kw being a lot for an appliance) if there's more to this please explaine

[shadowaxe356]

This is the law most places - anything fixed to the property becomes part of the property - and belongs to the owner of that property - not you.

Im sure i will have moved by the time i have the money for my system, however the extra people would move with me so my power would stay about the same.

[shadowaxe356]

Whoa. Don't buy anything yet. Lets sort some stuff out first.

Any large system will likely require mods to your main electrical panel.

All work will need permits, and City and likely Utility inspections. EACH add-on of more panels/inverters requires new permits and inspections.

If you don't own the property, the owner inherits the improvements. (Such a nice gift, thank you)

Pure Grid Tie. No batteries to water or replace. No Charge Controller (no batteries to charge). The power you produce, gets used right at your house, any surplus unwinds your meter total. This system can save you money, with a 10 - 15 year payback. You can add a Transfer switch and backup generator for occasional power outages. PV runs at about 500VDC

Pure Off-Grid Monthly battery watering. 5-10 year battery replacement schedule. Must plan with 90% perfection or you loose. (loose money and power). Weekly tinkering required. Careful (daily) monitoring of power levels required. Backup Generator required, 2 recommended. PV runs around 100VDC. Generally a 48V battery bank, managed by a Charge Controller. You (or someone living there) become the Power Plant Engineer.

With either of the above systems, only the PV panels and racks are common to both. It's expensive to "change your mind".

Hybrid System Much like Pure Off-Grid, with the option to sell any excess power to the Grid. The Hybrid Inverter costs more than either of the 2 previous system inverters. A transfer switch is needed, sometimes it's internal to the inverter.
Only recommended if your power grid is notoriously unreliable with several long outages a month.

I understand the permits and inspections, I didnt know i would need multiple if i added on so thank you for that. With how im going to run my system I would prefure to have a hybrid system so that i can switch off grid (if needed). I didnt know there was a hybrid inverter so that helps alot too. Would i be able run micro inverters with the main hybrid inverter or you cant have both? I would like to incorporate the micro inverters encase there's any shade or if i have any issues. I would like to go without the back up generator if possible? Is my math correct on finding how many watts and amps i need? Can i put multiple inverters together to match the max output? I have limited resorses on searching things with a computer but i have already done about 20 hours or resurch and im still no where near where i need to be, also my system is still in planning i wont be buying anything for at least a year.