New to Solar - have a CNC Router

[aeroin]

Hello everyone!

I sure am excited to make my first solar panel. But I like to take my time, do my research and make sure I'm doing things efficiently and correctly. I am hoping to find lots of good advice here. Thanks in advance.

I own a small business manufacturing CNC routed signs, letters, or just plain plastic parts. Because the machine has such a wide variety of applications, it is hard to tell where my next job will come from. I've made all sorts of weird parts from bulletproof polycarbonate windows to wooden harmonica parts. In the process, I use a lot of electricity.

I am hoping to purchase solar cells to make my own panels and wire them up to help cut down my electric bills and overall carbon footprint. I am interested in finding a good source for buying solar cells, and then I am hoping to find the best way to hook them up. Most plans I see seem to focus on getting off the grid and include an inverter and a bank of batteries. I was thinking more in terms of just hooking solar panels up to a flowback meter and having a separate account that only produces electricity and puts it into the grid so I don't need to store it. I just don't know enough about what components to wire up to make that work. Any suggestions?

[inetdog]

Hello everyone!

I sure am excited to make my first solar panel. But I like to take my time, do my research and make sure I'm doing things efficiently and correctly. I am hoping to find lots of good advice here. Thanks in advance.

I own a small business manufacturing CNC routed signs, letters, or just plain plastic parts. Because the machine has such a wide variety of applications, it is hard to tell where my next job will come from. I've made all sorts of weird parts from bulletproof polycarbonate windows to wooden harmonica parts. In the process, I use a lot of electricity.

I am hoping to purchase solar cells to make my own panels and wire them up to help cut down my electric bills and overall carbon footprint. I am interested in finding a good source for buying solar cells, and then I am hoping to find the best way to hook them up. Most plans I see seem to focus on getting off the grid and include an inverter and a bank of batteries. I was thinking more in terms of just hooking solar panels up to a flowback meter and having a separate account that only produces electricity and puts it into the grid so I don't need to store it. I just don't know enough about what components to wire up to make that work. Any suggestions?

Hi Aeroin and welcome!

What you describe is what is called a grid-tied system and is very common. There are descriptions in lots of threads in this forum that will help you.
But since the system is connected to your utility and requires inspections and approvals for safety, you will not be able to use DIY panels in such a system.
You will also find threads which describe why it generally does not really save you any money to make your own panels. It is an interesting exercise for the hobbyist or the inventor, but is not practical for a "real" system.

[Sunking]

As pointed out, forget about making panels for two reasons.

1. You can buy them cheaper than you can make them.

2. For a GTI system you will not be allowed to use DIY panels. You would never be allowed to pull a permit, pass inspection, no electrician will touch it, no electric company will connect you, and your insurance carrier would drop you if you did.

[aeroin]

Thanks for the quick answers!

Wow - Such a bunch of bureaucracy in grid tied systems... Are they trying to promote green energy or not? I guess the answer is no if you're a power company eh?

[Sunking]

Wow - Such a bunch of bureaucracy in grid tied systems... Are they trying to promote green energy or not? I guess the answer is no if you're a power company eh?

Has nothing to do with the Power Company. It has everything to do public safety and the NFPA which write the electrical codes and your local building department government. Your power company answers to none of them. Like you they just have to follow the rules made by you and your elected officials.

[aeroin]

Hmmm... I wonder..

Has nothing to do with the Power Company. It has everything to do public safety and the NFDA which write the electrical codes and your local building department government. Your power company answers to none of them. Like you they just have to follow the rules made by you and your elected officials.

Really though.... Public safety and all... I mean I build things for a living... If i was to build a solar cell, I'd probably build it better than most manufacturers. Just cause they paid to be UL listed or something means their panel would be safer?

It's like child car seats... statistical analysis shows no proven benefit for kids over 2 years old being in a car seat vs a regular seat belt. But there are laws keeping a multi-million dollar car seat industry in business.

[russ]

Really though.... Public safety and all... I mean I build things for a living... If i was to build a solar cell, I'd probably build it better than most manufacturers. Just cause they paid to be UL listed or something means their panel would be safer?

It's like child car seats... statistical analysis shows no proven benefit for kids over 2 years old being in a car seat vs a regular seat belt. But there are laws keeping a multi-million dollar car seat industry in business.

Be serious - No way you will build a solar panel the equivalent of a factory made panel - you don't have access to the equipment for encapsulation nor testing of the individual cells. The skill set needed for soldering and electrical connections are not something everyone has.

Their panel (factory made) would be probably 100 times safer - if not more. Your rant about rules and regulations is somewhat typical of a portion of the population from both extremes but rarely has a basis in fact.

The statistics for car seats - that is a crock I expect - anyone can make up any statistic and publish it - without independent confirmation such things are meaningless - and I don't mean the barber saying something is true.

[aeroin]

By the way...

By the way - thank you for your good advice. I don't mean to sound argumentative or unappreciative just because you're pointing out the obstacles to my plans.

Sometimes I fell like I'm sitting at a stop light when there is no traffic...And if I were one block over I'd be at a stop sign where I could use my own good judgement about crossing the street. Instead the law obliges me to sit idle wasting my time and gas waiting for a green light. Anyway -

I'm surprised to hear you can't build panels any cheaper these days... Solar panels still seem really pricy - Do you recommend any particular brand or supplier?

[Sunking]

aeroin I certainly understand your frustration, but right now you can buy manufactured panels cheaper than you can build them and they come with 20 year warranty and UL certification. Think of all the time and money you will save just buying the panels?

So if you are a biz man like myself: What is not to like about saving money and time?

[aeroin]

I don't mean to rant...

Russ, really, I don't mean to rant....

Testing cells and soldering...C'mon, manufacturing isn't magic... I mean I'd probably use thicker, stronger materials..

I'm 100% sure I build better furniture than you can buy at IKEA - why do you think solar power and electricity can only be properly done by those in the business?

[aeroin]

aeroin I certainly understand your frustration, but right now you can buy manufactured panels cheaper than you can build them and they come with 20 year warranty and UL certification. Think of all the time and money you will save just buying the panels?

So if you are a biz man like myself: What is not to like about saving money and time?

I've got nothing against it.. My time is valuable.. If I can buy them cheaper than I can make them - I'm all for it.

I just run into situations like - there are new wifi thermostats you can control from your smartphone - they tend to cost $90 or more... Nothing inside them is worth that much. Some business could probably make and sell them at a profit for half as much. I think sometimes part of a price is what the market will bear. I think it used to be that way with solar panels. Maybe it isn't anymore.

[Sunking]

I think sometimes part of a price is what the market will bear.

You are exactly right. Solar manufacturing is a collapsing bubble market brought on by subsidies. The supply is over the cliff and manufactures are selling below manufacturing cost to liquidate inventory, and cash out before they file bankruptcy so the creditors cannot collect what they are owed.

[aeroin]

That is interesting.

You are exactly right. Solar manufacturing is a collapsing bubble market brought on by subsidies. The supply is over the cliff and manufactures are selling below manufacturing cost to liquidate inventory, and cash out before they file bankruptcy so the creditors cannot collect what they are owed.

See - now that I did not know. It has been a while since I priced any of this stuff so my old ideas about solar prices obviously need rethought. I guess I'll go shopping...

That's why I joined the forums here... To talk to the people who know...

Is there any price point I should look to achieve - as in like dollars/watts or something like that?

[russ]

Manufacturing is not magic - however it is all about having the correct equipment -

1) How do you buy grade A cells - certainly not off fleabay

2) How do you plan to test those cells - need expensive equipment

3) How do you plan to encapsulate to the equivalent of what the mfg does? need expensive equipment.

A few hundred thousand invested in equipment and I agree anyone can do it or hire the people to do it.

IKEA furniture? I hope any cabinet maker/furniture maker can do better - I have never been impressed with IKEA - kind of Kmart standard.

How do you get UL certification? Anyone can do it though it is a bit expensive for a one off affair.

I worked in the design, construction, and operation of iron ore processing plants for a lifetime - I know what goes into building equipment quite well - those plants varied in cost from 100 million US$ to 500 million $ for the latest and greatest.

Russ, really, I don't mean to rant....

Testing cells and soldering...C'mon, manufacturing isn't magic... I mean I'd probably use thicker, stronger materials..

I'm 100% sure I build better furniture than you can buy at IKEA - why do you think solar power and electricity can only be properly done by those in the business?

[aeroin]

I'm here to learn...

Russ-

I'll be the first to admit - I don't know a whole lot about all of this but--

If I'm buying grade A cells from a respectable manufacturer - wouldn't they be UL certified and tested already?

If anyone, including myself, can go get UL listed, then what's the point?

If there is an IKEA equivalent to solar panels - like some cheap ones at Harbor Freight - and I can get permits to hook them up in a grid tied system - why shouldn't I be able to make better ones myself?