New to Solar - have a CNC Router

[inetdog]

Russ-

I'll be the first to admit - I don't know a whole lot about all of this but--

If I'm buying grade A cells from a respectable manufacturer - wouldn't they be UL certified and tested already?

If anyone, including myself, can go get UL listed, then what's the point?

If there is an IKEA equivalent to solar panels - like some cheap ones at Harbor Freight - and I can get permits to hook them up in a grid tied system - why shouldn't I be able to make better ones myself?

Even if UL tested the cells themselves (which they probably do not), the safety requirement is applied to the panels. That can be affected by assembly methods, interconnect materials, design, etc.

By the time your spent the time and money to get your production UL listed, you would be a manufacturer.

I consider IKEA to be at least one class above Harbor Fright, since IKEA is at least honest about what they deliver.

A real-life problem is that the regulators, who are concerned about other peoples safety and not just yours, have no way to test your assertion that you are building to the necessary standards. This is the issue which testing, regulation, licensing, etc. is designed to address.

[russ]

Comments in the text -

Russ-

I'll be the first to admit - I don't know a whole lot about all of this but--

If I'm buying grade A cells from a respectable manufacturer - wouldn't they be UL certified and tested already? I have not heard of any manufacturer selling grade A cells to the public - the stuff on fleabay is rejects/seconds/scrap

If anyone, including myself, can go get UL listed, then what's the point? Getting UL listed can be done by anyone willing to make the effort and expense with an acceptable product - and a few hundred thousand dollars to invest in the effort.

If there is an IKEA equivalent to solar panels - like some cheap ones at Harbor Freight - and I can get permits to hook them up in a grid tied system - why shouldn't I be able to make better ones myself? Sure you can buy some cheap junk - just watch fleabay. I already noted that if you wish to spend several hundred thousand buying the right equipment you can certainly make panels - you would then be a manufacturer

[aeroin]

I was just saying....

Look, I merely stated that if I were to take the time to build a solar panel, I could probably build a better one than I would buy from most manufacturers and Russ came across all incredulous like that just isn't possible.

Above I said "if I was buying grade A cells from a respectable manufacturer"

Nevermind that I could build a bulletproof, waterproof polycarbonate enclosure, might use thicker guage wire than necessary, and have solar panels that softball size hail couldn't damage...
I get what UL certification is about, I am just pointing out that there are plenty of million dollar manufacturers churning out crap and just because it has a UL sticker on it doesn't mean it is any better than something a home hobbyist puts together.
The fact that I could go spend some chunk of money and get UL certified kind of proves my point...

I don't know what kind of tests Russ is talking about that require tens of thousands of dollars - but his objections concerning soldering. encapsulation (sealing), assembly - all seem based on the notion that a machine in a factory has to do a better job than a person at home... I'm here to tell you that just isn't necessarily true. Handcrafted items can be far superior to factory made.

As it is, I'll probably just buy panels as advised.

[Offgrid]

Look, I merely stated that if I were to take the time to build a solar panel, I could probably build a better one than I would buy from most manufacturers and Russ came across all incredulous like that just isn't possible.

Above I said "if I was buying grade A cells from a respectable manufacturer"

Nevermind that I could build a bulletproof, waterproof polycarbonate enclosure, might use thicker guage wire than necessary, and have solar panels that softball size hail couldn't damage...
I get what UL certification is about, I am just pointing out that there are plenty of million dollar manufacturers churning out crap and just because it has a UL sticker on it doesn't mean it is any better than something a home hobbyist puts together.
The fact that I could go spend some chunk of money and get UL certified kind of proves my point...

I don't know what kind of tests Russ is talking about that require tens of thousands of dollars - but his objections concerning soldering. encapsulation (sealing), assembly - all seem based on the notion that a machine in a factory has to do a better job than a person at home... I'm here to tell you that just isn't necessarily true. Handcrafted items can be far superior to factory made.

As it is, I'll probably just buy panels as advised.

Russ does not set the regulations,he is advising you of how things work in real-life,dont shoot the messenger ...Your concerns of "You could do a better job" may be true but the people who govern these regulations frankly dont care how good your hand crafted panels are.Sometimes life throws lemons...go buy UL listed panels and make tequila at least then you will have the time to.

[inetdog]

Russ does not set the regulations,he is advising you of how things work in real-life,dont shoot the messenger ...Your concerns of "You could do a better job" may be true but the people who govern these regulations frankly dont care how good your hand crafted panels are.Sometimes life throws lemons...go buy UL listed panels and make tequila at least then you will have the time to.

"When life gives you lemons, throw them at someone else."?

[daveb]

I feel your pain

Aeroin I know where you're coming from. I am a craftsman myself and have made my own panels. They are things of beauty and much stronger (pysicaly not electricly) then factory built panels. I'm confident that I could get them certified but would never go throught that hassle. But we must play by the rules so my panels are off grid and off the house. I use them for a small off grid system and they work great.

[russ]

As it is, I'll probably just buy panels as advised.

The bottom line counts - all else is blowing smoke.

[Offgrid]

"When life gives you lemons, throw them at someone else."?

haha

[PNjunction]

... If I'm buying grade A cells from a respectable manufacturer - wouldn't they be UL certified and tested already? ...

A reputable manufacturer won't be offering you Grade-A cells - those they keep for themselves, unless YOU are a commercial client.

Anyone can make the CLAIM of selling grade-a cells, like I can claim that my panels actually have better-than-spec AAA+++ cells.

Check out some youtube videos on "solar module production line", and you'll see the reason why manufacturers hang on to real grade-a cells, and may offer up the ones you see that are missing from the production line to hobbyists or resellers, who can call them whatever they want. They are factory-rejects for a reason.