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  • #46
    Originally posted by RenewablesRock View Post

    Because I've heard from others that it costs hundreds of dollars. Plus the fact that these people will make me use tons of hardware and hire super expensive installers, so that throws out all of the DIY stuff I could ever do to save money. If I want to put 4 solar panels with ground mounts, that's nearly $1200, plus installation and concrete and wiring. This entire thing could EASILY top $2500 for a simple set up by the time you pay for permits and hire professionals. While that may not be a lot of money, it is when you have nearly $8,000 in bills each month. I don't want to sound like I'm complaining. I am just stating the facts. There are literally HUNDREDS of YouTube videos of people building what I am trying to do all with NO permits.
    With all those videos for the most part being little more than tributes to brain damaged vanity and little more than further evidence in support of the opinion that U-tube is the new Idiot's Bible.

    I'm out of this thread. It looks to me that your mind is made up and you don't want to be confused by reality. I hope it all works out for you somehow.

    Seriously, good luck, but watch out.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

      With all those videos for the most part being little more than tributes to brain damaged vanity and little more than further evidence in support of the opinion that U-tube is the new Idiot's Bible.

      I'm out of this thread. It looks to me that your mind is made up and you don't want to be confused by reality. I hope it all works out for you somehow.

      Seriously, good luck, but watch out.
      The reality is that it costs more than I can afford. I never said you were wrong. I'm just being more honest that I should be. All of this stuff costs way more than it should. I remember when V-Tech cordless phones used to sell for $299. I just saw them at the store just now for $19 bucks. It seems like solar stuff is priced at the $250 park and we all need it to come down closer to the $19 mark the way the V-Tech phones did. The phone works just as well, if not better than the $299 used to cost. I just wish batteries, inverters and solar panels would come down by 80% so then people like me could afford permits and installation.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by RenewablesRock View Post

        The reality is that it costs more than I can afford. I never said you were wrong. I'm just being more honest that I should be. All of this stuff costs way more than it should. I remember when V-Tech cordless phones used to sell for $299. I just saw them at the store just now for $19 bucks. It seems like solar stuff is priced at the $250 park and we all need it to come down closer to the $19 mark the way the V-Tech phones did. The phone works just as well, if not better than the $299 used to cost. I just wish batteries, inverters and solar panels would come down by 80% so then people like me could afford permits and installation.
        While solar equipment has come way down in price it is still above what most common people can afford. Similar to EV's. The more being made "should" bring down the price but even the cheapest vehicle is still out of reach for people that live paycheck to paycheck. Maybe someday solar will be very cheap to build and install but for now IMO it falls into the upper income group.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

          While solar equipment has come way down in price it is still above what most common people can afford. Similar to EV's. The more being made "should" bring down the price but even the cheapest vehicle is still out of reach for people that live paycheck to paycheck. Maybe someday solar will be very cheap to build and install but for now IMO it falls into the upper income group.
          I am in 100% agreement with you. I just wish I had more disposable income. Unfortunately I took on nearly $110k in debt in the past couple years between home upgrade, repairs and a mountain of medical bills. We are so far over extended and have bills above and beyond most working middle class.

          I bought my electric car used and got it for less than 1/2 of MSRP. As of now it's not even worth $2k as a trade in at any dealer. But it's great to have as an emergency backup vehicle when all of the gas stations are shut down. The sad part is that it takes 15 hours to charge at 110V and 5 hours at 220V. I have a 3.3k on-board charger and the car has 17.6 kilowatt of battery storage. The Chevy Volt has a 6 Kw onboard charger and charges much faster, but the Volt was nearly $42k new. I paid $12k for my EV.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by RenewablesRock View Post

            I am in 100% agreement with you. I just wish I had more disposable income. Unfortunately I took on nearly $110k in debt in the past couple years between home upgrade, repairs and a mountain of medical bills. We are so far over extended and have bills above and beyond most working middle class.

            I bought my electric car used and got it for less than 1/2 of MSRP. As of now it's not even worth $2k as a trade in at any dealer. But it's great to have as an emergency backup vehicle when all of the gas stations are shut down. The sad part is that it takes 15 hours to charge at 110V and 5 hours at 220V. I have a 3.3k on-board charger and the car has 17.6 kilowatt of battery storage. The Chevy Volt has a 6 Kw onboard charger and charges much faster, but the Volt was nearly $42k new. I paid $12k for my EV.
            I see an EV or Hybrid for me sometime in the future. But until the costs come down a little more so that I can justify it, I will just stay with my Tundra and Altima for our transport equipment.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

              I see an EV or Hybrid for me sometime in the future. But until the costs come down a little more so that I can justify it, I will just stay with my Tundra and Altima for our transport equipment.
              If you buy them brand new, you will NEVER see the savings. You have to buy them used. They drop in value like a stone. I remember when Ford Fusion hybrids were selling for like $35k. Now I see 2016 and 2017's selling for as low as $16-20k. The Tundra and Altima are good cars. You should just keep them until each has at least 400,000+ miles on them. Get your money's worth.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by RenewablesRock View Post

                If you buy them brand new, you will NEVER see the savings. You have to buy them used. They drop in value like a stone. I remember when Ford Fusion hybrids were selling for like $35k. Now I see 2016 and 2017's selling for as low as $16-20k. The Tundra and Altima are good cars. You should just keep them until each has at least 400,000+ miles on them. Get your money's worth.
                The 2003 Tundra has a little over 200k and hopefully be around for at least another 100k. The 2005 Altima has around 170k and my wife hopes it will last another year when we will get some type of SUV since we now have a 1200 ft grass (and bumpy) driveway to the house. Maybe I can talk her into a Hybrid.Used EV's are not easy to find in my neck of the woods.
                Last edited by SunEagle; 07-27-2018, 07:57 PM. Reason: spelling

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

                  The 2003 Tundra has a little over 200k and hopefully be around for at least another 100k. The 2005 Altima has around 170k and my wife hopes it will last another year when we will get some type of SUV since we now have a 1200 ft grass (and bumpy) driveway to the house. Maybe I can talk her into a Hybrid.Used EV's are not easy to find in my neck of the woods.
                  I worked at a car dealer and we have usually have new and used ones all the time. You can't find any on AutoTrader?

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                  • #54
                    sorry, have not posted for a while as I was working out my installation difficulties. here is an update
                    have a contractor starting today. Took a couple of months to find a couple of guys to bid it, but ended up with a good company. I bought the panels, inverter, and optimizers. They are doing all the rest of the work.
                    the permit was not that bad, took about 4 weeks because the city was slammed with permits to get in before Sept 2018 to lock in the maximum export rate over the next 10 years.
                    HOA was a little more trouble but finally got approved without any impacts
                    the install will take about 3 days so with the holiday I will be done next Tuesday, then wait for the city and electric utility to inspect and give me the approval
                    bought the wattnode recommended on this forum off eBay for $50 with CT's. That's about 10% of the retail pricing and will install myself again with instructions I found on this forum
                    pulled 2 new CAT 6's to the installation putting in a subpanel now to make it easier later when I add a battery.

                    I still get the same tax credit of 30% for all the materials I purchased as well as the work done by the solar company so I will have about $14k total into 9200-watt system....well worth the money. Also adding a large battery in the future as prices drop and buying an electric car so I have reduced my dependency on gas and electric! This was a long-term payback, I have found being retired there are some costs you can never control, NG, auto gas, and electricity! After seeing the scamming going on with the local utility I am glad I did this....no telling what the rates will be in the future. My costs went from about 10c a kWh total to 11c off-peak and 25c on-peak in one rate increase. the peak time is 3pm to 8pm all year. in AZ the on-peak costs for running your AC just went through the roof. And the local utility got caught funding the commissioner's election campaigns that voted for the rate increase for them....what a scam.

                    I hope anyone who lives in Arizona votes to undo these corrupt corporation commissioners....some of the ones that retired got jobs with the utility they were supposed to regulate.

                    I will send pics as soon as something is worth showing

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                    • #55
                      at JPM
                      the rules for flat roofs PV panel hights are both building code and HOA rules....double standard for flat roofers for sure. The HOA tried to make it more restrictive than the city but I appealed and won that argument. They can't extend up beyond the parapet and be seen from the street in the end.

                      my parapets are pretty high and I have a lot of sqft so I will have panels at about a 35deg angle facing 180deg which is perfect for my home. I probably will actually clip a small percentage at times.

                      my roof was just redone and the guarantee extended for 10 more years. The standoffs are common in AZ for flat roofs and are attached to the truss system then refoamed and recoated with elastomeric....I really don't anticipate any issues. I also had a structural engineering friend look over the shoulder of the installer to make sure he agreed with the design. but in the end, we can get some freaky wind storms and monsoons in Arizona so that is why I have insurance.

                      this has been a personal learning experience. The real shame is the city won't let a DIY'er put in their own grid-tied system, that was off the record and was non-negotiable. they will find everything wrong with your installation until you finally cry uncle and get a commercial installer. I was lucky to find the right guy after lots of due diligence.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by teeumup View Post
                        at JPM
                        the rules for flat roofs PV panel hights are both building code and HOA rules....double standard for flat roofers for sure. The HOA tried to make it more restrictive than the city but I appealed and won that argument. They can't extend up beyond the parapet and be seen from the street in the end.

                        my parapets are pretty high and I have a lot of sqft so I will have panels at about a 35deg angle facing 180deg which is perfect for my home. I probably will actually clip a small percentage at times.

                        my roof was just redone and the guarantee extended for 10 more years. The standoffs are common in AZ for flat roofs and are attached to the truss system then refoamed and recoated with elastomeric....I really don't anticipate any issues. I also had a structural engineering friend look over the shoulder of the installer to make sure he agreed with the design. but in the end, we can get some freaky wind storms and monsoons in Arizona so that is why I have insurance.

                        this has been a personal learning experience. The real shame is the city won't let a DIY'er put in their own grid-tied system, that was off the record and was non-negotiable. they will find everything wrong with your installation until you finally cry uncle and get a commercial installer. I was lucky to find the right guy after lots of due diligence.
                        The city or AHJ will approve a DIY system that meets the requirements of the buildings code in force. Period. The AHJ is out to do their jobs. No more. No one has a woody in this except maybe DIYer's who think their ill formed and ignorant opinions about the safe way to do things, if they think that far in the first place, constitute reality, with everyone who may disagree with them (the DIYers) out to get them. It's real simple: All anyone need do is follow the rules and they'll have no problems.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          my warning came from the building inspector or AHJ as you call it. They just won't let any DIYer unless you have a contractors license in the state of AZ do this work....maybe different in other cities. I am an engineer, this is actually simple s*#t for me. pretty much an erector set with a plug and play option. Don't know what city you live in but I assure you that AZ is run by big business and I am sure that the solar companies made sure only they can do the work. if you are off grid, that is totally different, but once you tie in to the meter thelectricic utility mafia and the city building permit and inspection process runs the show here in AZ

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by teeumup View Post
                            I hope anyone who lives in Arizona votes to undo these corrupt corporation commissioners....some of the ones that retired got jobs with the utility they were supposed to regulate.
                            Pretty amazing that they used excess profits from their customers to turn around and screw those customers further. Nothing like seeing your rates go up AND learning they converted millions of dollars in record profits into black money to fund their political candidates for the Corporation Commission (that is supposed to protect the public from a monopoly utility). They fooled the public with those fake "Pro-solar" candidate ads so people voted for solar and got just the opposite.


                            BTW...good luck with the install

                            Dave W. Gilbert AZ
                            6.63kW grid-tie owner

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              I have lived here for over 30 years...you obviously know the story azdave. This state is run by a few big land developers and monopoly CEO's. If you don't live here you can't possibly understand the politics of this state.

                              Got the first supports in today, hopefully, tomorrow is more productive....it is still freaking hot on the roof to work so I feel for anyone that makes a living on the roof

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by teeumup View Post
                                my warning came from the building inspector or AHJ as you call it. They just won't let any DIYer unless you have a contractors license in the state of AZ do this work....maybe different in other cities. I am an engineer, this is actually simple s*#t for me. pretty much an erector set with a plug and play option. Don't know what city you live in but I assure you that AZ is run by big business and I am sure that the solar companies made sure only they can do the work. if you are off grid, that is totally different, but once you tie in to the meter thelectricic utility mafia and the city building permit and inspection process runs the show here in AZ
                                Sorry, it wasn't clear in your post: Are you doing any of the work yourself, or did you just buy materials and hired an installer? My understanding here is that the electrical work is the real sticking point that requires a licensed electrician, but it seems like you're experiencing something different.

                                I have a flat roof as well and plan on doing something similar in the short term, but had always planned to get an electrician to sign off (or do?) the connections so they're covered under his license. I was hoping to do the actual physical install myself.

                                Can you share who is doing your install? Are they also redoing the roof around the standoffs or did you get your roofer back to do that?

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