Is solar green?

[DanKegel]

utilities have been advocating very strongly that EV owners [charge at night], due to their overgeneration at night. Once enough solar generation is installed that the duck curve problem becomes serious, you'll see that reverse itself.

Right -- TOU pricing currently favors nighttime use, but "realtime pricing" is coming (and is already offered by some utilities to businesses), and in combination with carbon pricing, will help shift demand to times when wind and solar are available.

[SunEagle]

Right -- TOU pricing currently favors nighttime use, but "realtime pricing" is coming (and is already offered by some utilities to businesses), and in combination with carbon pricing, will help shift demand to times when wind and solar are available.

That would required a big cost to install all of those EV chargers close to peoples work place so they would charge during the day light and not at night. My guess those charging stations will not be free and would cost a lot more than during off peak times.

[DanKegel]

Yes, it'll cost money to put in EV chargers in parking lots. That's going to be a challenge.

With all the solar going in, the new off-peak might be 9 am to 1 pm; look at Texas's recent report,

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/solar-will-replace-nearly-all-retiring-coal-in-texas

[SunEagle]

Yes, it'll cost money to put in EV chargers in parking lots. That's going to be a challenge.

With all the solar going in, the new off-peak might be 9 am to 1 pm; look at Texas's recent report,

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/solar-will-replace-nearly-all-retiring-coal-in-texas

No doubt the POCO's will continue to try to change the game plan to reduce their losses.

What I do not like is the way the ones in Nevada changed their Net Metering policy after a lot of people installed solar. Talk about a cheap shot.

[jflorey2]

That would required a big cost to install all of those EV chargers close to peoples work place so they would charge during the day light and not at night. My guess those charging stations will not be free and would cost a lot more than during off peak times.

We just installed 96 of them. Total cost was under $10,000. They are, after all, just a bunch of outlets. Use is free. (Since they are only used during the day, and since my company is now up to about half a megawatt of installed solar, it doesn't change our usage profile much.)

[SunEagle]

We just installed 96 of them. Total cost was under $10,000. They are, after all, just a bunch of outlets. Use is free. (Since they are only used during the day, and since my company is now up to about half a megawatt of installed solar, it doesn't change our usage profile much.)

Nice. Sounds like your company is ahead of the game. Most are a little more conservative with how they spend their money and who gets the benefits.

[Sunking]

Right -- TOU pricing currently favors nighttime use, but "realtime pricing" is coming (and is already offered by some utilities to businesses), and in combination with carbon pricing, will help shift demand to times when wind and solar are available.

Simple solution, leave California to a state where the more you use, the less expensive it is.

[DanKegel]

Simple solution, leave California to a state where the more you use, the less expensive it is.

Solution to what?

Realtime pricing is a good idea because it sends an accurate price signal to users. If it costs more to generate at night, the price should be higher at night, shouldn't it?

[Sunking]

Solution to what?

Realtime pricing is a good idea because it sends an accurate price signal to users. If it costs more to generate at night, the price should be higher at night, shouldn't it?

No in all states except California, energy is cheaper to produce at night. They have surplus and willing to sell at bottom dollar prices. Like day old bread, cut the prices so it doesn't go to waste as lost heat. Using NG, Coal, and Uranium is not like flipping on a switch. It takes a full day to cool down or fire up. That is the part you are clueless of. That is why you have to have conventional power standing by ready to go in a moments notice. You not saving fuel or emissions. You just waste resources and increase emissions, not to mention pissing away a lot of money for solar, and those losses are passed onto the public. If you want solar fine, pay for it out of your pocket.

California does not have excess generation capacity. You are dependent on all your neighbor states to provide your energy. You are SLAVES.That is what your energy policy has done to the citizens. State income taxes, wages, corporate taxes, and energy policy (prices) are running manufacturing out of California. Exactly what you wanted. Before long your power will be coming from Tijuana and Baja from US coal. All those trains of coal is your money and jobs leaving the country.

[SunEagle]

Solution to what?

Realtime pricing is a good idea because it sends an accurate price signal to users. If it costs more to generate at night, the price should be higher at night, shouldn't it?

While that makes sense the reality is generating at night is still lower then during the day because of how much less people use their power not because it costs more to generated it.

Why penalize someone that uses the grid when most people don't? That is the reason for TOU rates so the peaks can be lowered and fill in the valleys. It was not set up to hurt people that are really trying to help the POCO by not over taxing the generating system.

[jflorey2]

California does not have excess generation capacity. You are dependent on all your neighbor states to provide your energy. You are SLAVES.

I generate more power than I use and pay an average of about $15 a month to use the utility as a big battery. Charge my EV with it too, so I don't have to pay this week's gas prices. If that makes me a SLAVE then I am glad to be one; I enjoy the freedom.

[SunEagle]

I generate more power than I use and pay an average of about $15 a month to use the utility as a big battery. Charge my EV with it too, so I don't have to pay this week's gas prices. If that makes me a SLAVE then I am glad to be one; I enjoy the freedom.

Lets hope the other states don't decide to cut off CA due to issues.

Here in Florida back around Christmas 1989 it got so cold up in Georgia they needed more power to keep people warm so they reduced the amount of power they were selling Florida. That ended up us having rolling black outs of 15 minutes every hour.

[DanKegel]

Lets hope the other states don't decide to cut off CA due to issues.

Here in Florida back around Christmas 1989 it got so cold up in Georgia they needed more power to keep people warm so they reduced the amount of power they were selling Florida. That ended up us having rolling black outs of 15 minutes every hour.

Yup, proper planning is important. I hope we've learned lessons from the 2011 Southwest blackout. (Like, for instance, they should routinely test the assertion that the grid is stable even if it loses any one main component.)

[jflorey2]

Lets hope the other states don't decide to cut off CA due to issues.

Here in Florida back around Christmas 1989 it got so cold up in Georgia they needed more power to keep people warm so they reduced the amount of power they were selling Florida. That ended up us having rolling black outs of 15 minutes every hour.

LA is almost certainly going to see blackouts this summer - but it isn't due to anyone cutting anyone off. They had a massive natural gas leak and they shut down one of LA's largest natural gas reservoirs. Thus, ironically, the problem won't be due to lack of generation (either baseload or peakers) but rather the lack of fuel to run that generation.

(It _might_ affect us down here in the San Diego area, but it's unlikely - and we have backup anyway.)

[jetsurgn]

The Gas shortage I believe is overstated, especially the expected duration.