HELP NEEDED: Solar to power basement entertainment system in NY.

[xflip227x]

I'm definitely a n00b when it comes to solar. That being said. I wanted to start a project; not to power my ENTIRE home off the grid, but just to power my entertainment system during the day & if need be a little bit at night. I wanted to start off small, being that I rent from my parents, I wanted to save them as well as myself some money by contributing alil more than rent & groceries here and there.

The system needs to power: (for atleast 4-6 hours per day...variable usage)
1 XBOX 360
1 61" Samsung DLP LED TV
1 Blu-ray player
1 Stereo Receiver
1 Fish-tank lamp (on a digital timer) + pump

I was originally looking at the GOAL ZERO YETI with 2 30w solar panels. However, I decided to go my own route and develop the system on my own; I'd learn better that way.

The items I've purchased as a starter/n00b:

1 100 watt mono solar panel
1 12v 100ah agm solar deep cycle battery & battery box (group 27)
1 10 amp solar charge controller (NOT MPPT)
1 1100 watt modified sine wave inverter with 30 amp fuses
1 100ft 10 awg wire rated for solar/wind energy use (better to have more than less)

Total cost = roughly $550

I've already fully charged the battery off of solar and used the battery DISCONNECTED from the panel to power the TV for about 3.5 hours. I did not deplete the battery below 70%.

I do plan to mount the panel to the back of my home (southern sky facing and wall mounted at a 40 degree angle) and in the near future purchase 2 more 100 watt solar panels as well as 2 more 12v 100ah deep cycle agm batteries.

I'm sure that I've probably left out some things, not on purpose, but from lack of knowledge on the subject.

ANY advice would be greatly appreciated...

[Sunking]

I wanted to save them as well as myself some money by contributing alil more than rent & groceries here and there.

The system needs to power: (for atleast 4-6 hours per day...variable usage)
1 XBOX 360
1 61" Samsung DLP LED TV
1 Blu-ray player
1 Stereo Receiver
1 Fish-tank lamp (on a digital timer) + pump

I was originally looking at the GOAL ZERO YETI with 2 30w solar panels. However, I decided to go my own route and develop the system on my own; I'd learn better that way.

The items I've purchased as a starter/n00b:

1 100 watt mono solar panel
1 12v 100ah agm solar deep cycle battery & battery box (group 27)
1 10 amp solar charge controller (NOT MPPT)
1 1100 watt modified sine wave inverter with 30 amp fuses
1 100ft 10 awg wire rated for solar/wind energy use (better to have more than less)

Total cost = roughly $550

You just made a small down payment, as you will need 10 to 20 times the amount of equipment you have already bought to do what you want. Most of it you will not even be able to use. With what you have can power the fish tank and that is about it.

[xflip227x]

You just made a small down payment, as you will need 10 to 20 times the amount of equipment you have already bought to do what you want. Most of it you will not even be able to use. With what you have can power the fish tank and that is about it.

Thank you Sunking for your input. It's going to be an on going project. If I just wanted to power the TV & Xbox...what would you suggest? Besides of course dealing with grid power for it lol

[Sunking]

Thank you Sunking for your input. It's going to be an on going project. If I just wanted to power the TV & Xbox...what would you suggest? Besides of course dealing with grid power for it lol

Cannot answer because you have not specified the power requirements of the two devices. I know the XBOX is a real power hog of some nearly 200 watts. If ran for 4 hours is 800 watt hours. So in NY during winter you are looking at a 500 watt panel and a 300 pound $800 battery.

The problem with your request is your logic is invalid. It is impossible to save any money with Off-Grid Solar. Fact is th epower will cost you some 10 to 20 more.

[xflip227x]

Cannot answer because you have not specified the power requirements of the two devices. I know the XBOX is a real power hog of some nearly 200 watts. If ran for 4 hours is 800 watt hours. So in NY during winter you are looking at a 500 watt panel and a 300 pound $800 battery.

The problem with your request is your logic is invalid. It is impossible to save any money with Off-Grid Solar. Fact is th epower will cost you some 10 to 20 more.

Thank you for clarifying the situation for me. I guess I'll just keep the equipment in the trunk of my car for when I go camping...use it to power some LED lights or maybe a radio. What are your thoughts on the Goal Zero Yeti for emergency power?

[russ]

Goal Zero Yeti - pretty much falls into the expensive toy/junk group.

[Mike90250]

If you have grid power handy, Grid Tie is the way to go. Trying to build a small battery system is fine for a small demo, but you are not going to power the gear you list, for much more than a half hour with your panels.

[PNjunction]

I was originally looking at the GOAL ZERO YETI with 2 30w solar panels. However, I decided to go my own route and develop the system on my own; I'd learn better that way.

Right on - you'll learn all right.

1 100 watt mono solar panel

Ok. Probably about 18-20v ocv, soo.... 100w / 18v = 5.5A capable best case. Losses take it lower.

1 12v 100ah agm solar deep cycle battery & battery box (group 27)

Nice keeping it to just one battery. I wonder if the GZ uses two or more in parallel. So 50% (50ah usable) for cycling use worst case.

1 10 amp solar charge controller (NOT MPPT)

Fine. Hope it is at least a pwm type. If it is an on/off ping-ponging between an upper and lower voltage, consider upgrade to pwm type.

1 1100 watt modified sine wave inverter with 30 amp fuses

I like Sunking's admonition to keep it at C*3 for agms. Thus I think a 300 watt unit would have been a wiser choice for continuous draw. (Inverter rating for FLA battery would be half that C*1.5, so agm advantage seen here). A larger inverter would allow you to pull the trigger on power tools once in awhile, but continuous draw beyond C*3 would be too fast and voltage crashes. Attach inverter to battery directly, not to the "load" terminals of the charge controller.

1 100ft 10 awg wire rated for solar/wind energy use (better to have more than less)

Whoa - best to check 12v solar wiring charts for the run. They take into account the current, maximum allowable loss (strive for 3% or lower loss), and sometimes ambient temperature. Outputs are either in single-run lengths, or "round trip" lengths from the panel to the charge controller. Usually keep the CC near the battery.

Remember that most ups-style agm's can take up to about 0.25 to 0.3C of maximum charge current usually specified on their label. So if you upgrade your panel, make sure your wiring can handle it as well. Your battery manual might show your 100ah agm as being able to handle perhaps 25 to 30amps of bulk current charge. That's a bit more than 60watts of panel.

Since you can't measure the gravity of the electrolyte in an agm, the best you can do is measure the resting voltage after about 4 hours or so of no-charge, no load. Usually for agm we're talking 12.8v+ fully charged, 12.5v 50% discharged, and 12.2v 75% DOD. Try not to go below 50% DOD for frequent cycling. Alarm bells at 12v!! Under load, these voltages will be lower, but we haven't gotten that far yet. Your battery manual will have specific voltages and also handy charts for what DOD you go to depending on how much current your are drawing at the time.

Have you looked up your solar-insolation hours depending on where you live? (different from visible daylight hours). This, along with how much power you use, will help determine the right sized panels you need to get that charge accomplished in one day. You may have to drop some fun devices off your list. Consider an ac smart-charger with agm settings for backup to keep the battery healthy during periods of bad sun.

And yes, save up for a battery replacement in a few years. Consider this test battery sacrificial - treat it as nice as you can, but like all of us, more $$ in battery storage is inevitable sooner or later. Usually sooner in my case.

[Sunking]

I guess I'll just keep the equipment in the trunk of my car for when I go camping...

Do no tdo that as it will destroy the battery if not placed on a charger.

[bonaire]

Take a look at your home's power bill.

What does it say? Meaning, unless your cost for electricity is extremely high, this project is going to be a money pit. Pay one of their mortgage payments instead or cook dinner for them to help out around the house. Saving money by this project is not going to happen.

To review your bill, get the bill and subtract out the "items that are not per-kWh". What remains is the variable number. For example:
- customer connect charge $17 (not variable)
- 1125 kWH @ .07 generation
- 1125 kWh @ .04 transmission
- 1125 kWh @ .0012 something else

Your cost per kWh in this example would be .1112

The amount of power you use per month for those devices (if heavily used) is about 30-60 kWh. That is $3.11-6.22 per month. Round up to $10. $120/year. You will need to spend about $4,000 (wag) to do a good system to negate your energy usage using a battery system, solar panels, get the permits from the county, get electrical work done, inspections, etc.

Instead of playing games on the entertainment system, let me suggest something else. Go out and get a job Even if it is volunteering. No, really, it's the right thing to do. Don't plan to spend 5-6 hours on an entertainment system unless you are later on in your life and ready to retire. "Get out there and do something..." That's my only advice and I keep telling my teenagers the same thing. There is no way in life to grow to be a success with a plan to be using an entertainment system 5-6 hours a day. (I know, tough love, right? Well it's true and someone has to say it.) And, if you already have a job and this is 5-6 hours of "me time", well maybe that's better but do something to better yourself during that me-time besides the entertainment system.

[merlman]

merlman

I'm definitely a n00b when it comes to solar. That being said. I wanted to start a project; not to power my ENTIRE home off the grid, but just to power my entertainment system during the day & if need be a little bit at night. I wanted to start off small, being that I rent from my parents, I wanted to save them as well as myself some money by contributing alil more than rent & groceries here and there.

The system needs to power: (for atleast 4-6 hours per day...variable usage)
1 XBOX 360
1 61" Samsung DLP LED TV
1 Blu-ray player
1 Stereo Receiver
1 Fish-tank lamp (on a digital timer) + pump

I was originally looking at the GOAL ZERO YETI with 2 30w solar panels. However, I decided to go my own route and develop the system on my own; I'd learn better that way.

The items I've purchased as a starter/n00b:

1 100 watt mono solar panel
1 12v 100ah agm solar deep cycle battery & battery box (group 27)
1 10 amp solar charge controller (NOT MPPT)
1 1100 watt modified sine wave inverter with 30 amp fuses
1 100ft 10 awg wire rated for solar/wind energy use (better to have more than less)

Total cost = roughly $550

I've already fully charged the battery off of solar and used the battery DISCONNECTED from the panel to power the TV for about 3.5 hours. I did not deplete the battery below 70%.

I do plan to mount the panel to the back of my home (southern sky facing and wall mounted at a 40 degree angle) and in the near future purchase 2 more 100 watt solar panels as well as 2 more 12v 100ah deep cycle agm batteries.

I'm sure that I've probably left out some things, not on purpose, but from lack of knowledge on the subject.

ANY advice would be greatly appreciated...

Hi I started in a very similar way.I run the basement. I have 4 225ah battries and a growing 600amps of mixed panels. Its like a drug you will always need more. A good hobby, that won't save you money.(PS) playstation is plugged into grid,because it shuts off when the tv turns on.Fixed the power serge problem.Just hooked up a pure sine wave inverter

[inetdog]

...and a growing 600amps of mixed panels.

I hope that you mean 600 watts!
600 watts is a little small to keep four 225AH batteries happy.

[merlman]

I hope that you mean 600 watts!
600 watts is a little small to keep four 225AH batteries happy.

Yes 600 watts .what is a good size?growing setup when I can save money.

[inetdog]

Yes 600 watts .what is a good size?growing setup when I can save money.

For Flooded Lead Acid (FLA) batteries, you want to be able to supply charge at least some of the time at the C/12 up to C/8 rate (AH capacity divided by 12 or divided by 8).
The crude rule of thumb which gives you that number when looking at 12v batteries is that the panel wattage should be equal to the AH total or greater.
In your case that would be a minimum of 900 watts.
Depending on your loads, location, and the time of year that may still be much too small, but it gives a solid lower limit.

[merlman]

One more Q

For Flooded Lead Acid (FLA) batteries, you want to be able to supply charge at least some of the time at the C/12 up to C/8 rate (AH capacity divided by 12 or divided by 8).
The crude rule of thumb which gives you that number when looking at 12v batteries is that the panel wattage should be equal to the AH total or greater.
In your case that would be a minimum of 900 watts.
Depending on your loads, location, and the time of year that may still be much too small, but it gives a solid lower limit.

Thanks for the input,I am working on getting more panels.My question,At 5pm charge controller meter reads 100% 6pm(dark) down to the 80s by morning it is reading 50%Is this normal?(No load)