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  • Activate solar in an emergency

    Hello friends. I was wondering if anyone has any information on how I could get my solar up and running in a disaster type situation.

    I have a Solar Edge SE7600H-US with 24 lg panels and Solar Edge power optimizers.

    After purchasing this setup I do not have the funds for a professional battery backup so I am looking for a way to turn the solar on in an emergency. Say there is a long term disaster scenario and the grid is not coming back online any time soon. What can I do to get these turned on?

    I know the installers setup the inverter so it hooks directly into the main lugs on my panel. They said it needs to see grid power before it could turn on.

    Stupid idea likely but just spitballing here. What If I took a car battery and a small inverter and put power to those wires? Would that activate the inverter?

    If I was able to scavenge car batteries and wiring could I setup a battery backup?

    Sorry if this sounds stupid. I was honestly surprised to hear my panels wouldn't work in an outage after I had already signed the contract. I understand I don't have batteries but I thought I would be good while the sun was out like if I was running a generator.

    Any knowledge is helpful. Thank you

  • #2
    Yes it is a stupid idea, no it will not work, yes it has been asked before.
    OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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    • #3
      Well there has to be some way to get them going. I can buy some equipment I just cant afford 10k+ right now.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by tinkerab View Post
        Well there has to be some way to get them going. I can buy some equipment I just cant afford 10k+ right now.
        There are AC couple inverters that can work. I use a 4448PAE Magnum inverter. Not the best but it kinda works in a pinch. The biggest downside is that there's no real way to regulate the output of the grid-tie inverter so once the batteries are full the AC coupled inverter increases frequency to trip to grid-tie inverter. You also need a much bigger AC coupled inverter to be 'safer' so it depends on how much of a risk you're willing to take with your equipment. A 7.6kW inverter could overpower the smaller 4.4kW Magnum but would maybe trip before any damage occurs? You can parallel Magnums up to 16kW too...

        https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/si...g-Rev-5-10.pdf

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        • #5
          A test the solar inverter does to qualify the grid, is frequency stability. Most generators cannot pass that test. Some inverters might be two decimal places stable, but they don't have low impedance like the Grid would, so that is unlikely to pass.
          If you do get the solar inverters to fire up, they will try to dump their 5Kw into your gear and then all the expensive smoke inside, will be released.
          Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
          || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
          || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

          solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
          gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
            If you do get the solar inverters to fire up, they will try to dump their 5Kw into your gear and then all the expensive smoke inside, will be released.
            Which is why the AC coupled inverter should be bigger than the Grid-Tie inverter. I've paralleled my 8kW with my 4.4kW Magnum with manual load balancing and it works so in an 'emergency' I have options but I wouldn't recommend it. I took advantage of a cloudy day once to try to operate off-grid for a few hours and the sun came out briefly. My loads were ~2kW so my 8kW grid-tie started dumping >4kW into my Magnum. Those things are built tuff and it actually took it and dumped >4kW into my battery bank! The 60A charger was somehow dumping >80A into my batteries. I shutdown the grid-tie before the magic smoke escaped from the Magnum.... but I think the Magnum likely would have shutdown the grid-tie before it was damaged with frequency shifting. (likely...)

            'The maximum power rating of the renewable energy source must be no greater than 90% of the continuous power rating of the Magnum inverter.' So the largest grid-tie Magnum recommends with a 4448PAE is a ~3.8kW Grid-tie. If you parallel 2 Magnums you would be able to operate them off-grid AC coupled to a 7.6kW Grid-Tie.
            Last edited by nwdiver; 05-30-2019, 11:56 AM.

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            • #7
              And with all that equipment and expense you are still dark at night. Why not put the money spent on all the gadgetry into a diesel or propane genset and transfer switch?
              2.2kw Suntech mono, Classic 200, NEW Trace SW4024

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              • #8
                Originally posted by tinkerab View Post
                Well there has to be some way to get them going. I can buy some equipment I just cant afford 10k+ right now.
                Why must there be a way to get them going?

                There is a way, as others have stated to get a grid tie system working, just not a cheap way.
                In short it is to purchase an expensive bimodal system and large enough battery to handle the full charge. So since you have a 7.6kW grid tie inverter you would need an 8kW bimodal inverter that is capable of AC coupling, and has built in battery charger, and a battery of significant size to be able to take the full charge from your 7.6kW inverter
                Not a cheap solution.

                There is another option which is to replace your SE7600 with the StorEdge version and add an LG RESU10H. The StoreEdge is a bimodal inverter and can do backup. This is a more efficient method than the AC coupled and generally a bit cheaper but still likely pretty close to you $10k with installation.
                OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by tinkerab View Post
                  I was honestly surprised to hear my panels wouldn't work in an outage after I had already signed the contract. I understand I don't have batteries but I thought I would be good while the sun was out like if I was running a generator.

                  Any knowledge is helpful. Thank you
                  Note to potential PV users: This is what seems to be a good example of the possible results from the "Ready, Fire, Aim" principle and way of approaching things.

                  The probability of surprises and disappointments after purchase is usually inversely proportional to the amount of research done before purchase. Get informed before buying.

                  The OP is right about one thing however: Any knowledge is helpful. More knowledge about what is being bought before the purchase is more helpful.

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                  • #10
                    Buy yourself a small genset and either plug in the fridge and tv with cords, or install a small transfer panel to run the important loads if you want a beefier/more permanent installation. This won't cost you $10k, and will allow you to run for a bit in an emergency. Unless you experience power failures frequently, a solar based option is probably more money, and still won't work at night (unless you go batteries, and then its waaay more money)

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                    • #11
                      It's been said by others.....get a generator for emergency, adding another solar system will be 10 times more expensive, the hybird solar inverter will require its own panels , charge controllers, etc.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Xplode View Post
                        Buy yourself a small genset and either plug in the fridge and tv with cords, or install a small transfer panel to run the important loads if you want a beefier/more permanent installation. This won't cost you $10k, and will allow you to run for a bit in an emergency. Unless you experience power failures frequently, a solar based option is probably more money, and still won't work at night (unless you go batteries, and then its waaay more money)
                        A Magnum 4448PAE (which can be AC coupled to re-charge the batteries in a pinch) and 8 GC2s from costco will cost < $3k. IMO worth it to avoid this...

                        My primary motivation wasn't so much the nuisance outages that are more of an inconvenience but the possibility of a months long outage which could be a significant threat.

                        Screen Shot 2019-05-30 at 10.52.35 PM.png
                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by nwdiver; 05-31-2019, 12:57 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tecnodave View Post
                          the hybird solar inverter will require its own panels , charge controllers, etc.
                          If you are AC coupling then NO the hybrid inverter does NOT need its own PV modules, or charge controller.
                          It will need batteries and will control the grid tie inverter to charge them.
                          OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by nwdiver View Post
                            A Magnum 4448PAE (which can be AC coupled to re-charge the batteries in a pinch) and 8 GC2s from costco will cost < $3k. IMO worth it to avoid this...
                            OP has a 7.6kW grid tie which would require at least 8kW of bimodal and batteries capable of taking the full charge of 7.6kW
                            OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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                            • #15
                              This is a cool thread I wondered about this myself! I have a 2k watt inverter and panels I pieced together and installed on my roof. I like the outback inverters if I did go battery, looking for deals on batteries.Lithium or golf cart batteries if I did? I dont have much to run, just the fridge, dvrs, and some clocks. I get that pge is cheaper but I too like to tinker, and am putting off buying a new genny lol

                              shem

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