Newb with questions... Grounding & Charge controller amperage

[ButchDeal]

He contacted underwriting while I was on the phone with him. The only thing they want to be sure of is that the roof will support added weight of the panels without causing structural issues. At most, I would need a contractor to say that the roof system will support the weight.

Now I'm sure if the system directly caused a fire, it may be a different story.. but again, that is just what the guy on the other end of the phone said.

Same went for when I installed my wood stove (which is 100% up to code). They didn't even come out and look at the installation. It is on the policy and covered. I called and told them I was doing the install.. they said no problem. Nothing else ever said.

Oh for gods sakes. they are expecting it to be a legal permitted install, because that is the law and their policy states that it has to be. You can ask all you like but everything assumes it is a legal, permitted installed, and the small print in the policy covers it.

If the house burns down and they find that the wood stove was installed without proper permit and inspections they can void your policy. But you keep believing, there.

[Sunking]

Mike and SE you need to shut this guy down and send him on his way.

Or for fun let it run as an example. Fairy Tales from morons can be funny and educational.

[ButchDeal]

....when the person that wrote the policy and the people who cover the claims know it was installed by the homeowner and approved it... how exactly is it an issue? I was very clear with them that I was doing the work. There is no small print in the policy. It is a legal installation.

DID you tell them that you were doing the work with Non UL listed inverter and without a permit!?!?

I did my install and it is covered but I got a permit, inspections, interconnect, and used UL listed equipment properly installed.

BTW the person who wrote your policy didn't write all the small print, they tack that on from the corporate small print forms.

[ButchDeal]

Mike and SE you need to shut this guy down and send him on his way.

Or for fun let it run as an example. Fairy Tales from morons can be funny and educational.

we should check in and see what happens, Maybe he will set up a live video feed.

[littleharbor]

jeep (2).jpgFound a pic of the Combiner in Baja. Maybe you can click on it for fullsize view. Have since added one more string and maxed out the available roof space. The racking is tiltable and I have also added a Dog-eared fencing wind break.

[Sunking]

we should check in and see what happens, Maybe he will set up a live video feed.

Didn't they do that already in the 70's? I think it was called

Smoke on the Water

.

Or was that my Purple bong in Deep thought? I forget, that was was my radical lefty ways back then.

[Mr4btTahoe]

Thanks Mike and SunEagle for trying to help me out. I appreciate the guidance and the time to help point me in the right direction. Are you guys on any other forums that are dedicated to solar energy or alternative energy? If so.. PM me. I'd like to get more input but I'm pretty well done here. Thanks again.

Just to make a point... wasn't making up anything.

My energy provider (Vectren of southern Indiana).. my last bill for just residential electric service (no tax included) equals out to $0.136 per kwh ($136.21 for 1003kwh) which is higher then the nationa (~$.12/kwh)l and state average (according to you). They also just petitioned the state to increase the rate. Yeah.. I'm making it up as I go because it really matters?

Again.... SunKing (self proclaimed king.. imagine that) You are an all-knowing, arrogant jackass. Thanks for the 2 days of entertainment.

[ButchDeal]

Just to make a point... wasn't making up anything.

My energy provider (Vectren of southern Indiana).. my last bill for just residential electric service (no tax included) equals out to $0.136 per kwh ($136.21 for 1003kwh) which is higher then the nationa (~$.12/kwh)l and state average (according to you). They also just petitioned the state to increase the rate. Yeah.. I'm making it up as I go because it really matters?
.

Just going to leave this here.

https://www.vectren.com/Residential_Customers/Service_Requests/Customer-Owned_Generation.jsp

[Mr4btTahoe]

Just going to leave this here.

https://www.vectren.com/Residential_...Generation.jsp

Good...

And I'll just leave this here...


Top number includes state taxes... bottom number does not. I may be a lot of things but a damn liar isn't one of them. I wrote exactly what was on the bill.

I'll leave this here too...

http://city-countyobserver.com/it-is-time-for-vectren-to-explain-why-sw-indiana-is-an-island-of-exorbitant-electricity-rates/

Not only did they want to increase the rates in 2010... they did increase the rates in 2010. Notice the cost per kwh? They increased them again last year. I was wrong on the increase this year. That is for their natural gas customers.

Anyways....

[Sunking]

See everyone knows what you are. It is not the rates you claimed, it is your story. It kept changing and claiming you knew what you were doing that did you in. FWIW your rates are not high. Try moving to Calaphonie where they pay 35 cents and goes higher.

You came here asking for advice and to confirm your plans. We pointed out that everything you planned was dead wrong. Then you proceeded to resist and that you knew what you were doing. I understand you got pissed off. I would be to if I were you . We have all done it, bought something we regret later when we realize we lost our money. You are pissed at us for pointing out your mistakes. You own it not us. We are just the messengers.

You are not alone. 90% of the folks that come here make the exact same mistake. One thing all of them have in common. They are trapped inside a 12 Volt Toy Box. All of them think batteries are 12 volts, and that is where the plans fly off the railroad tracks. You start off with buying very expensive 12 volt battery panels, PWM controllers, and 12 volt Inverters made for RV's and trucks. You fit that story to a T and have a lot of company. You can find thousands of folks like that on You Tube.

[J.P.M.]

See everyone knows what you are. It is not the rates you claimed, it is your story. It kept changing and claiming you knew what you were doing that did you in. FWIW your rates are not high. Try moving to Calaphonie where they pay 35 cents and goes higher. You are done here. Now go play with your gun.

Not trying to be argumentative, but while it's certainly possible to pay $0.35 + and up for upper tier (~ $0.39-$0.42 or so for My POCO per 01/01/2017) on a tiered tariff, and ~ $0.49 -$0.54/kWh for peak summer hour use (about 900 or so hrs. per year +/- some out of 8,760 hrs./yr.) on a T.O.U. tariff, a lot of CA IOU POCO power in CA will cost something closer to $0.19 - $0.21 or so for the first 450 - 550 kWh/month or so on a tiered tariff, and ~ $0.23 - $0.26/kWh for the ~ 7,900 remaining hours of the year that are not peak summer hours on a T.O.U. tariff.

High users always get wacked with higher rates, but an average residential per kWh charge of $0.35/kWh as an average residential electrical charge in CA ( as calc'd by (total bill)/(total kWh billed) is not all that common by my limited experience.

Maybe an average tiered tariff rate of ~ closer to $0.29 - $0.31/kWh for 13,000 - 14,000 kWh use (with an est. but probably close bill of ~ $4,100/yr. or so) from my POCO for tiered rates per the latest tiered tariff, and about the same $$ +/-some, depending on time of use, for a T.O.U. tariff. Still not great, but not $0.35/kWh and can be be a lot lower per kWh with some sane use reduction.

[Sunking]

I understand JPM but the OP pays a flat 12-cents per Kwh for all he wants, and in the same sentence claims it is one of the highest rates in the country. Not even remotely close. Now 2 pages of this thread have been deleted. The OP started out with he just wanted a small stand-alone system to run a few lights and charge things in a power outage. By the end completely changed his story and said something to the effect he had talked to 100 people who told him we were crazy and did not know what we were talking about. Bottom line is you cannot BS a pro who has done this for almost 40 years.

[J.P.M.]

I understand JPM but the OP pays a flat 12-cents per Kwh for all he wants, and in the same sentence claims it is one of the highest rates in the country. Not even remotely close. Now 2 pages of this thread have been deleted. The OP started out with he just wanted a small stand-alone system to run a few lights and charge things in a power outage. By the end completely changed his story and said something to the effect he had talked to 100 people who told him we were crazy and did not know what we were talking about. Bottom line is you cannot BS a pro who has done this for almost 40 years.

Understood. Just offering info FWIW.

[Mr4btTahoe]

I understand JPM but the OP pays a flat 12-cents per Kwh for all he wants, and in the same sentence claims it is one of the highest rates in the country. Not even remotely close. Now 2 pages of this thread have been deleted. The OP started out with he just wanted a small stand-alone system to run a few lights and charge things in a power outage. By the end completely changed his story and said something to the effect he had talked to 100 people who told him we were crazy and did not know what we were talking about. Bottom line is you cannot BS a pro who has done this for almost 40 years.

Calm and collected... ok...

I did say we pay some of the highest rates in the country (never researched it... was just told that). Never had a reason to research other areas for their electricity rates and it never really bugged me so I didn't ask. Looks to be that I was wrong in that comment (even though we do pay some of the highest rates in our area of the country... but hey..)

I never changed my story. My story started as wanting to be able to power the addition to my home so it would always have power (which would include during storms, etc). I never said 100 people told me you were crazy... I said I had read, BEFORE coming here, from 100 different places that what I was doing was ok. It wasn't until I came here that I was told it was an issue... I then said "that is why I was skeptical of what you were saying". That didn't say anything along the lines of "you are wrong or you are crazy". I was just trying to explain why I was being argumentative in the first place and I clearly said that... but you didn't take it that way obviously. I had already looked into doing a grid-tie system... but the person I spoke with at my utility apparently "didn't have a clue as to what they were talking about" and I was basically called a liar. How would I know if they know what they are talking about? I would assume they would since they work for the power company... Oh well.

I wasn't trying to BS anyone... a "pro" or not. I came here describing what I wanted to do and from the get go (which you have also deleted all of your comments from the original conversation)... you basically called me an idiot. Now knowing that "plenty of people have wanted to do the same thing"... you could have been a bit less abrasive and I would have taken it a lot differently.. more like constructive criticism. There were things you posted, which when you posted them, didn't make any sense because of how they were written. You edited it after the fact then called me an idiot for misinterpreting what you wrote. That's when I became a prick about the whole situation.

I came here wanting to learn a few things (which I did). Nothing I had ever read or seen said that a mobile inverter would be an issue. I had never read anything stating a large parallel battery bank would be an issue. I knew that the PWM charge controller wasn't ideal... but to learn, it would serve it's purpose.

I'd venture to say we just got off on the wrong foot. I took what you were saying as being a prick (which is how a lot of it came off to me).. You took what I was saying as trying to be smarter then I am. Not how I intended it.. was just trying to explain myself at the time.

I deleted everything as it all got out of hand and it wasn't helpful or informative. It became a pissing match. There were a couple people taking the time to get me on the write track with the limits of my design and the limitations of low voltage, etc.. Next time... try not to come off as so arrogant. I don't mean that offensively either... it is just how you presented yourself which turned me off. I'm sure you have a wealth of knowledge on the subject... so for us new guys that "think we have a plan".. maybe you won't be so quick to prove how smart you are... maybe you could give guidance instead.

Who knows... maybe I took things the wrong way... maybe you were having an off day or maybe I was... either way, its done with.

Thanks to those who did help... I have changed my plan a good bit and will be upping the system voltage to a suitable level for my needs (at least 24v). I will also be upgrading the inverter to something suitable for residential installation. Still don't have much on properly grounding everything yet... but I'll find that information somewhere.

[Mike90250]

..... Still don't have much on properly grounding everything yet... but I'll find that information somewhere.

Grounding has just been buttoned up here:

https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/forum/solar/the-pros-and-cons-of-solar-energy/341217-ground-tutorial

It's long and complicated, but that's how it is. And some nice illustrations