Newb with questions... Grounding & Charge controller amperage

[Sunking]

Victron makes some nice ones, https://www.victronenergy.com/inverters
and also Samlex, Xantrex, Exceltech
Varrying price points, sizes, surge capability,

Mike Last time I looked at product lines Exceltech is the only manufacture on your list that makes Inverters for premises wiring. The rest are Mobile Inverters with Pug Receptacles only. No hardwire terminals for AC distribution and internally bonded N-G which is a No-No.

FWIW here is the comprehensive list of Inverters made for Premises wiring carrying UL 1471 listings. Click the Off-Grid Inverter Selection Guide on page 1 in the Gray Box. It is the last link. You might of missed it in the thread on PAGE 1.

[SunEagle]

The one I built used these fuses which go in touch safe fuse holders. I also incorporated MC-4 connectors into it so connecting panel strings is super easy without having to open the combiner box. The unused MC-4 connectors are capped with blank connectors. You can use a typical buss bar for the neutral connections. . These are generic pictures just as examples. My setup is in Baja and I don't have any pictures of it. It is also a bit larger. Ground buss bar.jpgPV fuse.jpgTouch safe fuse holders.jpgCombiner box.jpg

Nice. Those are the type fuses I used. I did not have extra MC4 connector so I use plastic box cable terminators where the wires were exposed to be landed on the fuse or terminal blocks and the other side had the MC4 connector to plug in the panels.

In the attached picture you can see the combiner box and the panel wiring to it. Of course the panels were tilted way up for access but can be lowered to a Summer or Winter angle when needed.

[Mr4btTahoe]

^ That's a slick setup.

[Sunking]

You are an idiot and you do not know how to read..

No you are the one who cannot read and comprehend. Get rid of the POS PWM controller, and use a good MPPT controler. That way you can wire all your panels in 2 series strings, running higher voltage which means much lower line losses and much smaller wire. The money you save from not having to buy 6 -position combiners and 7 breakers/fuses more than pays for the MPPT controller. Not to mention your way using PWM controller with your panels turns your 600 watt panels into 400 watts smart guy. Bet you did not know that either. Thought you said you new what you were doing Car Toy guy.

Guess what else you did wrong smart guy. You used 12 volt battery panels. They cost 2 to 6 times more than higher voltage GT panels. You could have bought 3 x 200 watt panels and a 60 Amp MPPT controller for half of what you paid. So now you get 400 watts for 600 watts and spent 2 times more than you had to. Now you are going to compound the mistake by placing all your panels in parallel forcing to spend a fortune on combines and breakers you did not have to use.

You have done everything possible you can do wrong. Yep you should be pised off for being so ignorant and not doing your homework.No better teacher than loosing a lot of money.

[SunEagle]

^ That's a slick setup.

I designed it to be used along with my generators as an optional power source after a hurricane.

Lucklely the number of power outages have been few and short so the generator was enough.

The big issue is that I spent ~$2500 for the larger system (comprised of 4 AGM 12v 50Ah batteries and 80 & 90 watt panels) and have used it only once. I could have built it for about $1000 less if I had used 2 x 6v 232Ah batteries and 2 x 200 watt panels. I did it before I listened to the experts on this forum because "I was an EE and knew what I was doing" Stupid mistake on my part.

[ButchDeal]

See... this is what I was shooting for in the first place... but wanted it large enough to be able to use on a daily basis (in turn my first assumptions about a large 12v battery bank/array). I wanted it in place so that the addition on my home would always have power no matter what the grid was doing (which we do have regular outages here).

Then what you want is a bimodal grid tie inverter with an emergency sub panel that feeds this part of the house. The bimodal will generate power and feed in on a net metering basis until the power is out. then it will disconnect and keep the emergency panel working. The benefit is that it reduces your bill more more than just the usage on the emergency panel AND cycles the batteries ONLY on outages, making it more efficient

[SunEagle]

Then what you want is a bimodal grid tie inverter with an emergency sub panel that feeds this part of the house. The bimodal will generate power and feed in on a net metering basis until the power is out. then it will disconnect and keep the emergency panel working. The benefit is that it reduces your bill more more than just the usage on the emergency panel AND cycles the batteries ONLY on outages, making it more efficient

I agree that if the OP want's the battery system to be connected to a home then he needs to do it right and use a bimodal inverter.

The portable systems that I built will only be used for spot loads through and extension cord. They will not backfeed any part of my home.

[SunEagle]

Problem is with grid tie in my area. My local utility only allows "so many" to go that route (which when I first contacted them a year or so ago, they were not accepting any applications at that time). It's also thousands of dollars in permits and inspections all through the utility and they mandate a professional installation (no diy... must be licensed, etc) which is understandable in a grid tied situation. The utility changed things quite a bit roughly 5 years ago from what I've been told by a friend of mine who is running a 7kw grid tied system. He had his installed prior to the changes... utility came out and swapped meters... no bs.. no issues. Now, it is INSANE. It was the first option I looked at and wish I could do it... maybe someday I'll have the funds and the utility will cooperate but that's a long ways out.

Hey. In Florida unless you get very special permission from a POCO you can't perform a DIY grid tie solar system. It has to be installed by a licensed contractor with a solar certification.

I am hoping that will change sometime in the future.

[ButchDeal]

Problem is with grid tie in my area. My local utility only allows "so many" to go that route (which when I first contacted them a year or so ago, they were not accepting any applications at that time). It's also thousands of dollars in permits and inspections all through the utility and they mandate a professional installation (no diy... must be licensed, etc) which is understandable in a grid tied situation. The utility changed things quite a bit roughly 5 years ago from what I've been told by a friend of mine who is running a 7kw grid tied system. He had his installed prior to the changes... utility came out and swapped meters... no bs.. no issues. Now, it is INSANE. It was the first option I looked at and wish I could do it... maybe someday I'll have the funds and the utility will cooperate but that's a long ways out.

I can effectively disconnect the addition on my home completely from the grid very easily. Is there a "right" way of doing it going this route? I want it to be safe and reliable... but I can't jump through the hoops that the utility currently requires. They want their money.

Did you mention where you are ?
It sounds like HI with the "so many" clause but even they are street by street.
The wonderful thing about many bimodals is that they can be put into grid zero mode which has them never feed back into the grid. This is easiler to get approval for.
Also the permits and inspections are NOT with the utility but with your county or AHJ and most have had to reduce fees as they were illegally charging more for more expensive jobs even though their work was the same regardless of the cost.

You generally can do a lot of the work yourself just hire an electrician to do the inverter AC work.
In any case you can wire the entire addition to a sub panel which will give you a lot of options.

[SunEagle]

My utility won't be going back on that... hell we have some of the highest rates in the country and they just came out saying rates were going up yet again. They gotta have their money... so if you are trying to get away from them, you're still gonna pay. Lol

With that said... what would you suggest in my situation? I know there isn't exactly a good way to go about it... however I can completely disconnect the addition to my home from the service panel very easily... the addition is on an exterior wall of the original dwelling... so it is "somewhat" separate.

I'll be making the best of an imperfect situation at best.

It all comes down to what your homeowners insurance company would say if you had a fire and they traced it back to the solar/battery system. Also if your POCO comes out and sees your rooftop panels they may want to investigate to see if your are illegally backfeeding the grid. If it was on a seperate building then I would imagine you would not get any pushback but if the panels are on your home and power is going into a room to fixed receptacles you probably will come under the scrutiny of an AHJ or some other person that could give you a problem.

[ButchDeal]

Why are you changing the meter base?
for net metering you shouldn't have to change the meter base. Just tie in at the MSP.
Utility is very vested in the meter base but you shouldn't be touching that for solar.

http://programs.dsireusa.org/system/program/detail/342

[ButchDeal]

From what the utility said... the current meter will not work with any form of grid tie inverter. They still use the old analog meter. Just going off what they told me over the phone. Any power fed back to the grid would be wasted as the old meter has no way of showing how much power was produced on my end.

ok so again why are you talking about changing the meter base? They will come out under net metering agreement, unplug the meter, and plug in the new meter.
No change to the meter base is needed.
You tie in at the MSP ( the main breaker panel).

Indiana has Net metering, see the Dsire link.

[ButchDeal]

None of that makes any since. I don't think you talked to anyone at the utility company that knows anything about net metering.
Do you have some non-publicly traded coop utility company?

I didn't mean I would have to change the meter base... I meant that if anything is done concerning the meter base (including pulling the meter), it all has to be signed off on.

That doesn't make since either. They own the meter. They can change it at any time. If they are given an order to disconnect the power then they can not reconnect without approval but if they pull it to replace they don't need any permission.

[ButchDeal]

Just called my insurance agent. The only thing the insurance company cares about is that the total loss coverage on the dwelling will cover the cost of the system. As long as I am happy with the dollar figures, they have no special requirements.

I think they are expecting it to be a permited and inspected system though. If it is not or you use non UL listed equipment it will void the policy

[Sunking]

Butch you are wasting your time. You are teaching a child to play with loaded guns. Show him where the trigger is, tell him to look down the barrel, pull the trigger, and put him out of your misery. He keeps changing his story and making it up as he goes.

All you have to do Butch is look at DESIRE, DOE, and instantly know he is making it all up. Indiana average rate is 10.53 cents per Kwh which ranks 27th or 2% lower than national average. He thinks we do not know what we are talking about.