Solar Power Sound System

[DanKegel]

Glad those links were helpful, but tread carefully.

Batteries wear out quickly (check the warranty!); could you achieve your goals using just
a one-hour battery supply, and kicking in a generator if the solar panels weren't
generating enough to keep the battery charged? That might be the most
economical way to start, since you have or need the generator anyway.

Very few people have battery-backed solar systems for their houses, it's not
very economical at the moment, and it's hard on batteries. So you'd be
treading a less-travelled path.
Have you done all the low-cost things you can do to increase your house's
energy efficiency? That would cut your current energy bill, and reduce the
size of the solar system needed to power your house.

[SolarSoundMan]

It would seem that your real intent is to have a "mostly" solar powered sound system and advertise it as such. In that case, you should decide on the maximum amount of panel area that you are willing to support for that. For example, I assume you have a van of some sort for sound system equipment transport. From a marketing standpoint, you will make the point by having the roof of the fan filled with solar panels. You would probably want the panel mounted with some sort of tilting mechanism so they are visible from anybody at the event (pointing at the sun is also a consideration. 4-6 panels (depending upon the vehicle) might be all you can get which would be 1200-1800 watts if directed in bright sun light. I don't think that you would necessarily get more impact if you also had temporary ground mounted panels that you pulled out and in fact might make it seem like, you need to many panel to just run the show. The roof top vehicle mount is a cleaner concept.

You would still need to size the battery pack to run the show at night without the aid of solar, but you can always claim the sound energy is from the sun (even if you fudge a little charging from the van if the battery discharge is too deep). At some point (after several days even) the batteries will have been recharged, the shore power only being needed if the back to back gigs are consuming more power than the panels will collect in the same time.

posplayr, yes you are correct in thinking that I want to have a "mostly" solar power sound system and advertise it as such. I do have a 14 ft box truck that I originaly thought I would mount the panels on top and sides for transport. Once at the show I would raise the panels on the sides to be level with the ones on the roof.

I finally ruled putting panels on the roof because my truck is parked in the garage at home and I really don't want to leave it outside to harvest power for my home when not doing shows. Another thing was if I ever sell the truck I would have to take everything off the roof and all the components and put them in/on another truck. Even though the holes could be sealed I just didn't want to deal with holes in the roof. Also, some of the shows I do will not allow me to park my truck at the stage area. This is why I thought I would keep the panels mobil to be used at home or at the shows.

I did consider a trailer after I ruled out putting the panels on my truck roof but still wasn't crazy about that either. I wouldn't be using this for many night time shows but maybe one here or there. I do know what you are saying about fudging things a bit to indicate everything is being run by solar and by supplementing charging of the battery's by a vehicle alternator or even a generator. The problem is, I don't want to have to do that except as a last resort.

Update today: I made some phone calls to a couple of the company's that DanKegal found for me to check out in post #37. THANKS AGAIN DAN! I was very in encouraged by the conversations I had with Iron Edison and Mobil Solar. I am reconsidering the use of a trailer as it just seems like the easiest way to have a plug & play system and to be able to take it anywhere and use it at home. The system has to also be a big enough solar power system to use at my house to hopefully get away from buring coal in the winter.

I am waiting for a quote from Iron Edison. One thing is, they do not offer a trailer so I would have to build the system myself. Mobil Solar has a turnkey setup and at this time I am liking what they have to offer. Travis is who I spoke with. He said they have tested their systems using sound systems at concerts. Testing and logging peak output (kick drum hits, etc), average KWH, etc, and they perform very well!

He told me the battery would run 10 or more hours no problem and would not need charging. This would be nice if doing night time shows! He said the battery's are lead acid fork lift battery's with a 2000 cycle life span using 80% DOD and would last even longer using 50% DOD. He went on to say that in 11 years being in the business they have yet to replace a battery. The system I am most interested in that should cover all my needs for both my business and at home is this: http://www.mobilesolarpower.net/ms-225/

[posplayr]

I can never be sure about how much sun I will have for any show? This year has been one of the rainiest years I can remember. With that said I have somehow lucked out and had mostly nice days when I also had shows. As others have said sun or wind are not things that are so predictable that you can actually count on them being there when you need them.

I do use a generator for some shows but not allot. For shows that I do use regular power for I would want to use the solar power when possible (only if the panels would not keep up with it). I feel that the more it is used and people see and know that I use it the hope is to be able to do more shows.

Yes, I do not want to make to many mistakes on the first try at doing this as it could be rather costly. I think if I have the right size inverter, the correct size of battery to last through the shows, enough panels to help supplement it throughout the show, and the option to use shore power I should be good to go. I would carry a small generator to help keep things charged up if shore power would not be available but would not want to use it unless I REALLY had to. Using a generator is defeating the purpose of going green.

It would seem that your real intent is to have a "mostly" solar powered sound system and advertise it as such. In that case, you should decide on the maximum amount of panel area that you are willing to support for that. For example, I assume you have a van of some sort for sound system equipment transport. From a marketing standpoint, you will make the point by having the roof of the fan filled with solar panels. You would probably want the panel mounted with some sort of tilting mechanism so they are visible from anybody at the event (pointing at the sun is also a consideration. 4-6 panels (depending upon the vehicle) might be all you can get which would be 1200-1800 watts if directed in bright sun light. I don't think that you would necessarily get more impact if you also had temporary ground mounted panels that you pulled out and in fact might make it seem like, you need to many panel to just run the show. The roof top vehicle mount is a cleaner concept.

You would still need to size the battery pack to run the show at night without the aid of solar, but you can always claim the sound energy is from the sun (even if you fudge a little charging from the van if the battery discharge is too deep). At some point (after several days even) the batteries will have been recharged, the shore power only being needed if the back to back gigs are consuming more power than the panels will collect in the same time.

[SolarSoundMan]

So long as you know when to use KWatts or Watts (power which is "rate of energy usage") v.s. KWatt-Hours or Watt-Hours(energy which is "accumulated power") you are fine. The reason you need to know is it is critically important to to sizing your system.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the simple clarification on this, I think the bell is finally ringing in the mass above my shoulders now and the difference of the two! Thanks to you and everyone else helping me understand these things and bearing with me until I do.

[SolarSoundMan]

So there's demand, at least

What percent of the time is it sunny *during* your events (such that your car is fully hit by the sun)? (Wondering if you could get by without serious batteries for some events?)

Do you currently use a generator? (I forget if you mentioned that.)

On the theory that getting feet wet without jumping all the way in is wise (since you might end up throwing away the first system after you figure out how to do it right), what's the smallest part of your load that makes sense to split off and power with the sun?

I can never be sure about how much sun I will have for any show? This year has been one of the rainiest years I can remember. With that said I have somehow lucked out and had mostly nice days when I also had shows. As others have said sun or wind are not things that are so predictable that you can actually count on them being there when you need them.

I do use a generator for some shows but not allot. For shows that I do use regular power for I would want to use the solar power when possible (only if the panels would not keep up with it). I feel that the more it is used and people see and know that I use it the hope is to be able to do more shows.

Yes, I do not want to make to many mistakes on the first try at doing this as it could be rather costly. I think if I have the right size inverter, the correct size of battery to last through the shows, enough panels to help supplement it throughout the show, and the option to use shore power I should be good to go. I would carry a small generator to help keep things charged up if shore power would not be available but would not want to use it unless I REALLY had to. Using a generator is defeating the purpose of going green.

[posplayr]

>i am sorry as i have probably been guilty of this at least one of those times (maybe both) but i am also trying to understand the differences. My kill a watt meter for what i assume is kilowatts has in capital letters KWH. I understand that to be kilowatt hours. So that is the value i thought i was referencing when i tested the sound system.*

> thanks for the examples, it may sound easy, and i will do my best to understand it.

> i believe i understand what you are saying in the last paragraph, i am just not sure how to apply it for my application?

[/QUOTE]

So long as you know when to use KWatts or Watts (power which is "rate of energy usage") v.s. KWatt-Hours or Watt-Hours(energy which is "accumulated power") you are fine. The reason you need to know is it is critically important to to sizing your system.

[DanKegel]

To answer your question "how much extra income could I make if I had a visibly and attractively
"green" power solution for my gigs?" I don't know for sure? I do know that I like the idea of using solar power after getting a taste of it at the festival where I got to experience it. I have been spreading the word about my plans to have this type of system and the people I have been talking to are very receptive to the idea even to the point of having full promotion for the shows using solar power. I am now getting involved with others who are hosting solar power events and are reaching out to me as they know I am trying to go green with my business and now with the solar sound system they are very excited.

So there's demand, at least

What percent of the time is it sunny *during* your events (such that your car is fully hit by the sun)? (Wondering if you could get by without serious batteries for some events?)

Do you currently use a generator? (I forget if you mentioned that.)

On the theory that getting feet wet without jumping all the way in is wise (since you might end up throwing away the first system after you figure out how to do it right), what's the smallest part of your load that makes sense to split off and power with the sun?

[bcroe]

Your "kill a watt" meter is capable of measuring both instantaneous power (KW), and accumulated
total energy over time (KWH). Just a matter of picking the range. Bruce Roe

Bruce, when I got the meter to do as you suggested to see how much power I was drawing from the sound system to determine how big of a battery bank I would need I was referring to the KWH scale. In 5 hours it used 1.5 KWH.

When you say my meter will show "instantaneous power", is that watts? I'd do see watts listed on the meter but I don't see anything that shows KW but I will double check that.[/QUOTE]

OK, it directly displays watts. 1000 W = 1 KW. Bruce

[SolarSoundMan]

Your "kill a watt" meter is capable of measuring both instantaneous power (KW), and accumulated
total energy over time (KWH). Just a matter of picking the range. Bruce Roe[/QUOTE]

Bruce, when I got the meter to do as you suggested to see how much power I was drawing from the sound system to determine how big of a battery bank I would need I was referring to the KWH scale. In 5 hours it used 1.5 KWH.

When you say my meter will show "instantaneous power", is that watts? I'd do see watts listed on the meter but I don't see anything that shows KW but I will double check that.

[bcroe]

>i am sorry as i have probably been guilty of this at least one of those times (maybe both) but i am also trying to understand the differences. My kill a watt meter for what i assume is kilowatts has in capital letters KWH. I understand that to be kilowatt hours. So that is the value i thought i was referencing when i tested the sound system.*

> thanks for the examples, it may sound easy, and i will do my best to understand it.

> i believe i understand what you are saying in the last paragraph, i am just not sure how to apply it for my application?

[/QUOTE]

Your "kill a watt" meter is capable of measuring both instantaneous power (KW), and accumulated
total energy over time (KWH). Just a matter of picking the range. Bruce Roe

[SolarSoundMan]

Put another way, how much money do you spend on power now,
and how much extra income could you make if you had a visibly and attractively
"green" power solution for your gigs?

When you say " how much money do I spend on power now"? I assume you mean at my home? If so I would guess an average of $100 month. This does not include coal I use for 6 months a year to heat the house, cost for that is $800-$900 for that 6 mo. My plan is to stop using coal and hopefully use the solar power system to supplement our electric bill and to use electric heat. I do not spend much when I am out doing shows as there is usually power available or I have to rent a generator.

To answer your question "how much extra income could I make if I had a visibly and attractively
"green" power solution for my gigs?" I don't know for sure? I do know that I like the idea of using solar power after getting a taste of it at the festival where I got to experience it. I have been spreading the word about my plans to have this type of system and the people I have been talking to are very receptive to the idea even to the point of having full promotion for the shows using solar power. I am now getting involved with others who are hosting solar power events and are reaching out to me as they know I am trying to go green with my business and now with the solar sound system they are very excited.

I believe the potential is there to keep making a living not getting rich, I have been in business for 23 years making a living doing what I love to do. As they say, it's not work when you like what you do! The thought of having a solar sound system, although complex learning what I will need to make it happen has been fun so far! This would be the only solar power sound system in my area. I believe that once people see it, hear it, and know that it is a sustainable system others will want to have this as part of their event! So far everything has been positive to be able to offer this. Being part of and having the experience with different festivals I am hoping to be able to have my own sustainable festival in this area.

I am not sure if that answers your questions? In a nut shell I believe the potential is there for this to become a success and be a very integral part of my business!

[SolarSoundMan]

for the op:

There is a little bit of loose terminology going on in this thread. I have seen "watts per hour" used twice to represent 3000 kw*hr consumed in 5 hours.

Watts is power which is a rate of energy consumption (i.e. Kw*hr per hr of just kw). "watts per hour" is an energy acceleration not an energy rate and i don't think anybody means to describe such a thing.

600 watts for 5 hours would be a proper statement. If you ever need a mental reminder, just remember that watts is rate and there is an associated speed analogy. Watts is how fast you are burning energy. So if you have say 60 mph (analogous to 600 watts) and you went for 5 hours you would have covered 300 miles (analogous to 3000 watts*hr). In this analogy the miles are analogous to joules which is a measure of energy. Watts is joules/sec

another way to remember is that your total energy usage (as measured by the meter) is 3000 kw*hr which represents the energy you used at a rate of 600 watts over a period of 5 hour.

Yet another way, when the equipment is on it is using 600 watts. For discussion purposes is more or less constant. The longer you leave it on the more energy you use and the kw-hr keep going up while the kw stay the same(unless you turn the equipment off).

>i am sorry as i have probably been guilty of this at least one of those times (maybe both) but i am also trying to understand the differences. My kill a watt meter for what i assume is kilowatts has in capital letters KWH. I understand that to be kilowatt hours. So that is the value i thought i was referencing when i tested the sound system.*

> thanks for the examples, it may sound easy, and i will do my best to understand it.

> i believe i understand what you are saying in the last paragraph, i am just not sure how to apply it for my application? [/quote]

[DanKegel]

As far as my budget I am still not sure?

Put another way, how much money do you spend on power now,
and how much extra income could you make if you had a visibly and attractively
"green" power solution for your gigs?

[SolarSoundMan]

I had some fun looking for packaged systems. This is just what I dredged up in a random google search; someone who actually works in off-grid solar power would know a lot more.

http://ironedison.com/freedom-package-24-volt-300-ah looks serious, and might do. (Yeah, everyone said 48
volts makes the most sense, but 24 volt systems aren't crazy, and make more sense than 12V systems.)

http://sunreadypower.com/product-line/ has (along with typos) some nifty looking portable lithium-based
systems, but they're a few sizes too small for you.

http://www.mobilesolarpower.net/ms-200/ is a solar trailer, but it's probably out of your price range. It uses lead batteries, I bet.

http://bondsolar.com/houston-solar-e...lar-generators is too small, but is EMP-proof

What's your budget?

Dan, thanks very much for the links! I have been looking at them and there is allot of information in them as well as explanations of values we have been discussing here. I feel I am slowly getting a grip on some of this terminology. I am not sure how you found these links but I have done searches for portable solar systems and not come up with anything like this! I will be calling some of these company's to see what ideas they may have to help me. A trailer is not really what I wanted but it may be the best and simplest option for a mobil solar system.

As far as my budget I am still not sure? If I can find the right system that I know will do what I want it to do (including using it at my home when not using it to power my sound system) I would probably be inclined to spend more. This is a very exciting adventure for me! I want to TRY and make the best decisions the first time around. I realize you have to make mistakes sometimes to learn but that is also how you learn. Thanks again for all of this info! This will keep me busy asking more questions and learning what I will need to make the dream of having a solar power sound system become a reality!

[posplayr]

The meter is reading in KWH over a 5 hour span, that being the case from what you say above this would be an average load of 600 watts per hour. I would rather have an inverter with more output than what I would need as I do have even bigger sound systems I may be able to use this solar power system with and use it at my home. My primary goal is to at least be able to run the sound system I am talking about in this thread for 5 hours.

For the OP:

There is a little bit of loose terminology going on in this thread. I have seen "watts per hour" used twice to represent 3000 kw*Hr consumed in 5 hours.

Watts is Power which is a rate of energy consumption (i.e. Kw*Hr per Hr of just Kw). "Watts per hour" is an energy acceleration not an energy rate and I don't think anybody means to describe such a thing.

600 Watts for 5 hours would be a proper statement. If you ever need a mental reminder, just remember that watts is rate and there is an associated speed analogy. Watts is how fast you are burning energy. So if you have say 60 mph (analogous to 600 watts) and you went for 5 hours you would have covered 300 miles (analogous to 3000 watts*hr). In this analogy the miles are analogous to Joules which is a measure of energy. Watts is Joules/sec

Another way to remember is that your total energy usage (as measured by the meter) is 3000 Kw*hr which represents the energy you used at a rate of 600 watts over a period of 5 hour.

Yet another way, when the equipment is on it is using 600 watts. For discussion purposes is more or less constant. The longer you leave it on the more energy you use and the Kw-hr keep going up while the Kw stay the same(unless you turn the equipment off).