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  • #16
    92% of Maine is forest. 52% of Maine townships are 'unorganized' [meaning no town charter, no mayor]. Maine has over 10,000 miles of sled trails, connecting every town. Maine has over 3,000 miles of coastline. Nearly all of Maine forest is 'privately owned - open to the public'. Most of Maine is rural [less than 10 per square-mile]. While the nation has less farms each year, Maine has more farms each year.

    It can be a great place for retirees [like me] who do not need to earn a living, but who want to homestead.
    4400w, Midnite Classic 150 charge-controller.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by peakbagger View Post
      ...OTG in rural maine sounds cool but the reality is there can be week long periods in the winter where there are no clear days.
      After 9 years of living here, we have not yet seen any full week long period without clear skies. For the most of each winter, we get one storm per week, followed by 5 days of clear skies.

      Though could be possible to go 4 or 5 days where it is cloudy the whole time, maybe once a winter.

      But that is just my observation. I lived in Washington for many years, I have seen long term overcast skies there.



      .... Generally most authors admit that any savings in land cost is substantially offset by the cost to supply power on a year round basis. Not many homesteading folks have the 30 to 50 K that reasonably may be needed to provide a robust system.
      I am not familiar with many homesteading authors.

      There are regions of Maine that are popular with tourists. So there are $500k to $5Million homes in Maine. When I spoke with Off-Grid installers, they cater to the tourists. None of their systems run under $75k. One installer told me that his average system is $125k.

      The average household income in my town is $24k, that is two adults working seasonal jobs raising two children.

      So yes, few Mainers can afford a robust system. My system is by far the most 'robust' setup among any of the other here in my town.



      ... The other key point to consider is that many of the homesteaders are contrary by nature and don't take advice well. They are used to doing it their own way. An extreme example are the doomsday preppers on TV, no matter how suspect their theories of disaster are, they have made up their mind and are merrily heading off on their own path and hopefully no one gets in their way.
      I have never seen doomsday preppers, watching TV takes a lot of time for buffering, every few minutes.

      Most families here have been here are 6 or more generations. It is a unique culture. I am from California, I like it here.

      You do not hear many 'theories of disaster' among local folk here. I do not think that categorizing Mainers as 'preppers' is on the mark. They have been here for generations. They know the grid goes down [if you have access to the grid]. They know the snow can pile deep.

      I see a lot more discussion about 'prepping' and 'SHTF' online, then I have heard of that stuff from locals.



      If you want to hunt, fish, trap, garden, forage, this is a great place for it. You will never starve here. I know many fellow farmers who earn enough to support their families, from organic farming here.

      There is one family that tips fir on my land, every fall, to make wreaths. That is their winter income [making wreaths for sale down South].

      I let others trap on my land, that is their income in that particular season.

      You do not really 'need' the rat-race' here.

      My military pension puts us above the average household income here.

      I do not see that as a mental illness, which seems to be how 'preppers' are characterized. No, this is something different. These are homesteaders.

      Build your own house, produce your own food, produce your own fuel, be a little more independent.

      4400w, Midnite Classic 150 charge-controller.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by organic farmer View Post
        ???

        I am not asking for anything.
        My bad, I got you and the original poster confused. That's what I get for pretending my phone is a computer.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by organic farmer View Post
          If every square-mile of land in the USA were drawn on a map. I suspect that the overwhelming majority of them are uninhabited.

          Most of the USA is rural [meaning less then 10 people per square-mile].

          My town has a cellphone repeater, because the interstate goes through our town. But towns to our East and West do not. Most towns in this state do not have cellphone towers. Cellphones generally only work along the interstate, or else in cities.

          It is not profitable to setup towers and infrastructure for zero customers.

          That is why my town does not have any cable company, when homes are over a mile apart, you would need to string a lot of cable before you got 10 customers.

          The economics work different in a city. When you can have 100,000 customers all within a single square-mile, then you can make lots of profit from stuff like that.

          The power line in our town, goes through another 30 towns after. 92% of this state of forest. That is a lot of power line on poles shorter than the forest that over-shadows on both sides on the road. When one tree blows down in a storm, you lose power to 30 towns [or more].

          Due to government subsidy the utility companies stay in business. But only because of the government subsidy.



          I like rural. I moved here after I retired. It is peaceful. I can shoot a rifle in any direction from my house, and it is safe. Deer, bear, turkey are all harvested from on my land every year. Some years a moose is also harvested. We harvest more deer in a year, in our town, then we have residents.

          Land prices are low, home prices are low, taxes are low, Cost-Of-Living is low.

          Some of us like it this way.
          I understand and respect where you live and why you want to live as you do. I just wish the Utilities would have provided a reliable power grid to more people in Maine and other states so they wouldn't need to spend their hard earned $$ to provide their own power.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by peakbagger View Post
            ... About 1/4 of maine, the northwest quadrant is industrial timberland with some wilderness parcels.
            I got to thinking about that; "1/4 of Maine".

            I am not sure how you are defining 'industrial timber' or 'wilderness'.

            92% of Maine is forest. Very tiny percentage of that is state or federal owned land. Over 99% of this forest is private land, and open to the public. I own a small portion of it myself

            Most of Maine is rural, less than 10 people per square-mile. I live in that area. I am not sure if that is what you want to call 'wilderness'. 52% of townships here are 'unorganized' to keep our taxes low, and generally they have a dozen or less residents. My town is among the most populated unorganized towns, we have around 230 people.



            Originally posted by Bucho View Post
            My bad, I got you and the original poster confused. That's what I get for pretending my phone is a computer.
            No sweat



            Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
            I understand and respect where you live and why you want to live as you do. I just wish the Utilities would have provided a reliable power grid to more people in Maine and other states so they wouldn't need to spend their hard earned $$ to provide their own power.
            The Utility Companies of Maine also put up a huge fight to avoid hardening the gird sub-stations from solar flares / EMPs. And they lobby big to avoid having breakers at the state-lines to allow Maine to stand-alone, from the remainder of New England states.

            I recently listened to a discussion panel of State Legislators and Utility Company engineers debating these topics.

            4400w, Midnite Classic 150 charge-controller.

            Comment


            • #21
              You are going to be real sorry, trust me you are not getting it. You can get what you want at a fraction of the price, more reliable and will not be limited to just a few watts when commercila power is out.

              You do know it will require completely rewiring your home right?

              You do know anything you take off grid in your area the way you want to do it will cost you 10 to 20 times more than buying the power company right?

              You do know when the power is off you will be extremely limited to just a few emergency circuits right?

              You do know you will need a generator to get you more than a few hours of power even with solar right?

              Did you know you can have everything you want for a fraction of the price and when power is off is laugh at your neighbors suffering while life goes on like nothing happened at your house because you will have full power?
              MSEE, PE

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by organic farmer View Post
                If every square-mile of land in the USA were drawn on a map. I suspect that the overwhelming majority of them are uninhabited.

                Most of the USA is rural [meaning less then 10 people per square-mile].

                My town has a cellphone repeater, because the interstate goes through our town. But towns to our East and West do not. Most towns in this state do not have cellphone towers. Cellphones generally only work along the interstate, or else in cities.

                It is not profitable to setup towers and infrastructure for zero customers.

                That is why my town does not have any cable company, when homes are over a mile apart, you would need to string a lot of cable before you got 10 customers.

                The economics work different in a city. When you can have 100,000 customers all within a single square-mile, then you can make lots of profit from stuff like that.

                The power line in our town, goes through another 30 towns after. 92% of this state of forest. That is a lot of power line on poles shorter than the forest that over-shadows on both sides on the road. When one tree blows down in a storm, you lose power to 30 towns [or more].

                Due to government subsidy the utility companies stay in business. But only because of the government subsidy.



                I like rural. I moved here after I retired. It is peaceful. I can shoot a rifle in any direction from my house, and it is safe. Deer, bear, turkey are all harvested from on my land every year. Some years a moose is also harvested. We harvest more deer in a year, in our town, then we have residents.

                Land prices are low, home prices are low, taxes are low, Cost-Of-Living is low.

                Some of us like it this way.
                Wow you sure made that sound tempting. At least on some days.
                I think I'd love it if I made it past my media addiction withdrawls. I suspect I'd get by with just my 80 gig ipod
                How about a small sunnyboy with standby power. A 2-3 kw system grid tied generating power many days while running AC and laptop. When power drops you loose A/C but PC will still have runtime with ups. For longer outages switch the ups to the offline outlet. May be better answers but I think this could work in the situation.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by nomadh View Post
                  Wow you sure made that sound tempting. At least on some days.
                  I think I'd love it if I made it past my media addiction withdrawls. I suspect I'd get by with just my 80 gig ipod
                  How about a small sunnyboy with standby power. A 2-3 kw system grid tied generating power many days while running AC and laptop. When power drops you loose A/C but PC will still have runtime with ups. For longer outages switch the ups to the offline outlet. May be better answers but I think this could work in the situation.
                  Most homes that use electricity here, have two generators. A large one that consumes a gallon of fuel an hour, and a small one that consumes a gallon of fuel over 8 to 10 hours. The small generator can power lights and PC, show you can watch movies, etc. The large one can power the well pump [so you can flush the toilet], chest freezers [to keep your meat frozen], and refrigerator.

                  These homes run the large generator for one hour each day, while the toilet gets flushed, laundry is done, etc. The small generator runs all the rest of the time, except for when they are sleeping.



                  If you know that the grid will be down for a week at a time, and you expect this to happen a couple times every year [separate from the normal 8-12 hour outages that we see every month]; folks all get used to it.
                  4400w, Midnite Classic 150 charge-controller.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Oranjoose View Post
                    I couldn't decide whether to put this in the on grid or off grid sub forum, so let me know if this isn't in the right place. Figured the off-gridders have had to get a bit more resourceful .

                    To get to the crux of the question, I would like to have a system where there's a battery charger on AC hooked up to the batteries 24/7, but only keep the batteries at 80%. The solar panels would be responsible for pushing the charge above 80%. Therefore, the AC wouldn't kick in until the batteries dipped down to 80%.

                    The smart chargers available seem to be configured to keep the batteries topped off to the brim continuously (rather than the desired 80%). Does anyone know of an existing solution/equipment or clever DIY that I can deploy to achieve this? While there is intended to be a computer running 24/7 in this shed, I would like to avoid using computer controlled relays soldered onto existing meters/chargers to program this behavior.

                    A tiny more background is that I have the luxury of running AC to the shed 24/7, but I want to have solar contribute to the energy source. The shed is not supposed to use much power, but even so, I've calculated that going securely off the grid will be pricey. But going mostly off the grid, where AC can kick in on those stretches of cloudy days etc is significantly cheaper.


                    So my thought for doing this would be to have the solar panels connected to the battery bank with the charge controller as usual, and to simultaneously have the bank connected to the AC battery charger set to keep the batteries no lower than 80%. The computer electronics/lights would also be continuously drawing from the bank through an inverter.

                    Any ideas?

                    Thank you.

                    Sounds like a great idea.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by hogan646 View Post
                      Sounds like a great idea.
                      Pardon - It is a meaningless idea.
                      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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                      • #26
                        I can see the benefit of combining grid-power with off-grid. In theory the days and occasional week when the grid is down, maybe the sun will be shining. Hopefully when a snow-storm lasts for more than 2 days the grid will be up.

                        Both have their weaknesses, but they should be able to offset one another.

                        What I do not see making any sense is powering A/C or heatpumps.
                        4400w, Midnite Classic 150 charge-controller.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by organic farmer View Post
                          What I do not see making any sense is powering A/C or heatpumps.
                          I've seen a couple setups where the heatpump uses excess solar power to heat or cool a tank of water for hydronic HVAC, but the tank needs to be quite large (1000+ gallons) to have more than a few hours of heating/cooling. Not sure if that's sensible, but it can be made to work.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by RedDenver View Post
                            I've seen a couple setups where the heatpump uses excess solar power to heat or cool a tank of water for hydronic HVAC, but the tank needs to be quite large (1000+ gallons) to have more than a few hours of heating/cooling. Not sure if that's sensible, but it can be made to work.
                            We heat our home with wood. Our woodstove sits in the center of our house. It also heats water, which circulates through a Thermal-bank, which then circulates through our radiant flooring. We think that by capturing as much heat as possible, storing it, transferring it to where and when we want the heat, this is a very efficient home heating system. They say that a heated floor is a much more efficient system of home heating, because you need so much less heat when your feet are warm. We can tell a big difference, between when we heat the floor as compared to when we dont.

                            Our problem is that our thermal-bank is only 200 gallons.

                            I have attended a few workshops on this topic. As they workout the math, you need a thermal-bank of 1500 to 2000 gallons to really make it work the best.

                            When it is -20F, we can fire-up our stove at 3pm, and burn it until 10pm, at which time we bank it. By 7am our house is just beginning to cool enough that we need a bit of heat to keep it comfortable, until our passive solar gain really kicks in around 11am.

                            I think if we had a 2,000 gallon thermal-bank instead, than it would hold the heat longer and keep our home comfortable from sunset to sunrise much better.

                            We live in Maine, we generally burn between 3 and 4 cords of wood each winter. Our neighbors commonly burn 10+ cords of wood.



                            So when it comes to thermal-banks you do need them big. That is in the nature of how they work.

                            I issue with heat-pumps is that using electricity to turn a motor to compress Freon is a massive power load.

                            Electricity is great for lighting, computers, fans, and even circ pumps. You can do a lot of neat stuff with electricity. But when it comes to generating heat [coffee pots, microwave ovens, electric stoves, space heaters], or compressing freon [refrigerators, freezers, A/C, or heat-pumps] using electricity sucks.

                            I do not believe it is the appropriate energy form to be using for those categories of activities.

                            Wood makes heat very nicely, as does coal.

                            4400w, Midnite Classic 150 charge-controller.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by organic farmer View Post
                              We heat our home with wood. Our woodstove sits in the center of our house. It also heats water, which circulates through a Thermal-bank, which then circulates through our radiant flooring. We think that by capturing as much heat as possible, storing it, transferring it to where and when we want the heat, this is a very efficient home heating system. They say that a heated floor is a much more efficient system of home heating, because you need so much less heat when your feet are warm. We can tell a big difference, between when we heat the floor as compared to when we dont.

                              Our problem is that our thermal-bank is only 200 gallons.

                              I have attended a few workshops on this topic. As they workout the math, you need a thermal-bank of 1500 to 2000 gallons to really make it work the best.

                              When it is -20F, we can fire-up our stove at 3pm, and burn it until 10pm, at which time we bank it. By 7am our house is just beginning to cool enough that we need a bit of heat to keep it comfortable, until our passive solar gain really kicks in around 11am.

                              I think if we had a 2,000 gallon thermal-bank instead, than it would hold the heat longer and keep our home comfortable from sunset to sunrise much better.

                              We live in Maine, we generally burn between 3 and 4 cords of wood each winter. Our neighbors commonly burn 10+ cords of wood.



                              So when it comes to thermal-banks you do need them big. That is in the nature of how they work.

                              I issue with heat-pumps is that using electricity to turn a motor to compress Freon is a massive power load.

                              Electricity is great for lighting, computers, fans, and even circ pumps. You can do a lot of neat stuff with electricity. But when it comes to generating heat [coffee pots, microwave ovens, electric stoves, space heaters], or compressing freon [refrigerators, freezers, A/C, or heat-pumps] using electricity sucks.

                              I do not believe it is the appropriate energy form to be using for those categories of activities.

                              Wood makes heat very nicely, as does coal.

                              Have you looked into other types of thermal banks like stone or gravel? I know that once stone is heated up it can take a while for it to cool down.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
                                Have you looked into other types of thermal banks like stone or gravel? I know that once stone is heated up it can take a while for it to cool down.
                                Can be used, but water has more heat capacity.

                                organic farmer, if you're only using the thermal bank for heating, then a simple electric heating setup to use excess solar power is much simpler than a heat pump. Of course wood is a different form of storing solar energy and works great for heating. If you need cooling, then using a heat pump to store cold water might make sense in some cases.

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