Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Will my solar system charge two crown forklift batteries?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Mark Doorlast View Post
    You know, I've never seen an industry where no one agrees on anything. Everyone is dead wrong. Everyone is dead right. Weirdest thing I've ever seen. The only thing I can figure is it's rigged to all hell and back so people can be endessly fleeced.
    What you are describing is "ready-fire-aim. Stay away from the garbage on you tube - there are a couple of people posting videos there that have an idea but 95%+ are just trying to make themselves feel good.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Comment


    • #17
      X2

      Originally posted by Sunking View Post
      Mark although you do not realize it we are trying to help you. It is not our fault you went and made a major investment without doing due diligence. But try to listen and it might make sense to you. First you have not stated your goal. I can only assume from the info you provided it sounds like you want a Grid Tied system and emergency power for those rare times you have extended outages?

      Can what you bought do that? Yes it can. However it can be done for a lot less money and more effectively. So let's call your way option 1 and leave it at that. YOu will need a generator to complete the system and rewire your home. If that is what you intend then click close and be done with it. Good Luck

      However if you want to know 2 other options read on and listen.

      Option 2

      Use what you bought, except you only need a small 48 volt battery. Say around 100 AH AGM. Under normal operating conditions you have a Hybrid Grid Tied System and the batteries and sit there and collect dust. Not an opinion, it is fact. When power goes off. The internal Transfer Switch of the inverter operates and disconnects from the grid and connects to your emergency loads only. If the sun is out and producing more power than you demand, all the power comes from the panels and not the batteries. All the batteries do in that case is regulate voltage. It does not take a large battery to do that. Again is a fact. If you have cloud cover or night power comes from the batteries. When the batteries drain down your hybrid inverter sends a start signal to a generator you must have either way. The generator picks up the loads and recharges your batteries. Once the batteries are recharged the generator shuts down and the whole cycle repeats itself until commercial power is restored.

      That means you do not need two very expensive 80 amp charge controllers, just a single smaller controller. Nor would you need a monster sized $11,000 battery that is rarely if ever used. All you need is a battery 1/10th the size or even smaller. Bu tit comes with some disadvantages which are many and costly.

      1. Hybrid systems are inefficient because they generally operate at much lower voltages than a grid tied system. That means more wiring and much larger wires which cost real big bucks.
      2. A hybrid inverter cost much more than a like size Grid Tied invert. It has more stuff in it like an Automatic Transfer switch, battery inverter, battery charger, and generator support and control.
      3. That ATS switch inside the inverter is behind your electric meter and is only good for 60 amps. What that means is you are going to have to have an electrician install you an Emergency Breaker Panel connected to the inverter. Then the electrician will move up to 8 Emergency circuits to the Emergency Breaker panel. That is a huge expense. Those circuits will not be any air conditioning, electric cooking. hot water, or high wattage appliances. Just things like your refrigerator, freezer, some lighting, and a few receptacles for things like TV, phone, satellite, etc..

      So now be honest with yourself and ask yourself a couple of good questions. If I need a generator, why do I want batteries, very expensive batteries that wil be rarely used? You don't have to tell us. If that is what you want to do click close and be done with it.

      Option 3

      Scrap your idea and take your losses. Then install a conventional grid tied system with a pad mounted generator using LPG fuel stored in a 150 to 550 gallon tank. If you want you can use the LPG for hot water, cooking, and heating which in your area is likely cheaper than electricity. The generator will have an Automatic Transfer Switch (ATS) but ahead of your electric meter, not behind it. When power fails, generator starts up and the ATS switches from utility to generator. Providing the generator is sized correctly will power everything in your home. No rewiring of your home required. Will cost 1/3 to 1/2 of doing it your way and much more effective.

      Those are some of your options. One more question you need to ask yourself. If you are on the coast and a Hurricane blows in; What happens to those panels on your roof?

      Good Luck.
      House-Sun Earth Hot Water.
      RV-390W Kyocera, Kid.

      Comment


      • #18
        Hi All,

        Interesting topic, I just wanted to put my 2 cents worth in. I have read several posts now where various people claim that you have to replace batteries every 5 years, well I must say that in my experience with off grid and hybrid systems I think that is a total BS statement.

        We have done a bunch of off grid and hybrid systems where the batteries we use are warrantied for 3000 cycles, now if you set your dod between 20% and 25% you should get 10 years no problem. My uncle has been living with an off grid system now for 12 years and is still on his original batteries, granted they are now stuffed and will be replaced shortly but he got 12 years, and that's on old style batteries.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by solar pete View Post
          Hi All,

          Interesting topic, I just wanted to put my 2 cents worth in. I have read several posts now where various people claim that you have to replace batteries every 5 years, well I must say that in my experience with off grid and hybrid systems I think that is a total BS statement.

          We have done a bunch of off grid and hybrid systems where the batteries we use are warrantied for 3000 cycles, now if you set your dod between 20% and 25% you should get 10 years no problem. My uncle has been living with an off grid system now for 12 years and is still on his original batteries, granted they are now stuffed and will be replaced shortly but he got 12 years, and that's on old style batteries.
          One thing that may influence the wide variety of conflicting experiences that different people report with respect to battery life and in particular its relationship to the published cycle life figures from the battery makers:

          For warranty and cycle counting purposes a lead acid battery is considered to be at end of life (or at least a candidate for replacement) when its capacity at the 20 hour rate, C20, has declined to only 80% of the original capacity.
          Now if that was a uniform decline, 80% capacity would be almost as good as new to an off-gridder who designed their system around a 20% daily discharge in the first place, so on that basis a lot more than 5 years may be possible. Whereas for a use where guaranteed hours of autonomy are critical, 80% may make them really unusable.

          What I also do not know, and perhaps Dereck can fill in the blanks, is whether or not the degradation of capacity is really linear or whether it is an accelerating process and a battery that has taken 5 years to decline to 80% might go down to only 50% or less in another year.

          Another factor which comes into play is that even within the general category of deep cycle batteries, there are some widely different use profiles that they can be designed for, involving tradeoffs like high cycle life versus low internal resistance versus low self-discharge, so different types of battery may well give their best economic performance under very different lifestyles and handling scenarios.
          SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by solar pete View Post
            Hi All,

            Interesting topic, I just wanted to put my 2 cents worth in. I have read several posts now where various people claim that you have to replace batteries every 5 years, well I must say that in my experience with off grid and hybrid systems I think that is a total BS statement.

            We have done a bunch of off grid and hybrid systems where the batteries we use are warrantied for 3000 cycles, now if you set your dod between 20% and 25% you should get 10 years no problem. My uncle has been living with an off grid system now for 12 years and is still on his original batteries, granted they are now stuffed and will be replaced shortly but he got 12 years, and that's on old style batteries.
            solar pete

            I usually respect an Admin on this forum and do not question what they post but I have to say your statement in bold text above is totally out of line.

            You and your Uncle may have had success with a long life with a few sets of batteries for any number of reasons. But there is a lot of evidence supporting the fact that in most cases a FLA deep cycle battery if used daily will only last 5 years or maybe 2000 cycles. Sometimes a little longer under very unique circumstances but rarely 10 years.

            So as an Admin I respectfully ask you to kept and open mind and if you disagree with something and can provide facts supporting your side then do so but please but not condemn statements of other people.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by inetdog View Post
              What I also do not know, and perhaps Dereck can fill in the blanks, is whether or not the degradation of capacity is really linear or whether it is an accelerating process and a battery that has taken 5 years to decline to 80% might go down to only 50% or less in another year
              Yes I can shed some light on the subject and the opinion of battery community which may or may not reflect my own opinion based on my experience. It is a hotly debated subject between users and manufactures. I sat on IEEE working group WG-450 from 1998 to 2001 and was a contributor to IEEE 450-2002 Recommended Practice For Maintenance, Testing, And Replacement For Lead Acid Batteries. WG-450 is composed of manufactures and users. When you look at cycle life graphs by various manufactures you have to keep in mind they use accelerated testing under ideal lab conditions. Batteries are kept at 75 degrees and never allowed to set in a discharged or fully charged state except for the brief rest periods at the end of both charge and discharge cycles. When you hold the manufactures feet to a fire, they admit the cycle life charts are just for demonstration purposes and the user cannot expect like results. Telephone and Electric Utilities come to as close as you can get to ideal lab conditions, and none experience the claims, and those companies buy batteries of quality way beyond what most folks can afford. Telcos and Electric companies use to perform Battery Capacity test some years ago. It is very expensive to have done, about 25% of the replacement cost. Today after conducting thousands of load test no utility I am aware of still perform capacity test with the exception of th eWestern Electric Round Cell made of pure lead. Some of those cells test 80% + after 20 years. Today they just automatically replace VRLA ever 5 years and FLA every 7 years. Reason is simple. After decades of test and experience, they know the batteries will no tpass a capacity test.

              So Dave to answer your question yes as the battery ages the deterioration process accelerates. Battery failure modes either occur from Sulfation or Corrosion. But rahter than me go much further, there is plenty of info out there to be found from third party agencies. One I like is this one as they KISS so everyone can understand and reflects what IEEE has to say about the subject. A battery has 3 stages of life. Formatting, Peak Performance, and Decline. The Decline phase starts around 200 to 300 cycles.
              MSEE, PE

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by solar pete View Post
                I have read several posts now where various people claim that you have to replace batteries every 5 years, well I must say that in my experience with off grid and hybrid systems I think that is a total BS statement.
                Well you are the ADMIN and can say and do anything you want. I don't care. But you had better get all your Moderators to tow the Company Line because none of them agree with you, nor anyone else with professional experience. Makes me think you sell the stuff so I can understand your opinion.

                Tell you what I will leave the Forum but I want all my STICKIES REMOVED before I leave. Got it!
                MSEE, PE

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by solar pete View Post
                  Hi All,

                  Interesting topic, I just wanted to put my 2 cents worth in. I have read several posts now where various people claim that you have to replace batteries every 5 years, well I must say that in my experience with off grid and hybrid systems I think that is a total BS statement.

                  We have done a bunch of off grid and hybrid systems where the batteries we use are warrantied for 3000 cycles, now if you set your dod between 20% and 25% you should get 10 years no problem. My uncle has been living with an off grid system now for 12 years and is still on his original batteries, granted they are now stuffed and will be replaced shortly but he got 12 years, and that's on old style batteries.
                  Pete - You are posting where you have little idea except sales.
                  [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Wow. I wake up to this thread !

                    My opinion - to grow plants, use a greenhouse with insulated polycarbonate panels. Why lights unless it's an indoor pot grow?

                    Generator - gasoline, propane, diesel, got to have one, unless it's sunny 362 days a year. I get at least 3 episodes of 10 days of clouds every winter, batteries last 4 days, rest is on generator, or you destroy your batteries
                    Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      In my opinion, lead acid batteries are like insurance policies. It's nice knowing they are there, but the more you use them, the more likely they will dump you. Ideally, they don't want to be used at all, ever.
                      https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?sid=54099

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
                        Wow. I wake up to this thread !
                        The post just before your's is from 2014. How long were you asleep?

                        Dave W. Gilbert AZ
                        6.63kW grid-tie owner

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by azdave View Post

                          The post just before your's is from 2014. How long were you asleep?
                          Wait - Who's president ??



                          There was a previously deleted spam post that brought the thread up, and I didn't read the dates on the older posts.
                          Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                          || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                          || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                          solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                          gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            OK that's just funny
                            285Wx9 / MNClassic 150 / CSW4024 / TrojanL16H-ACx4

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X