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  • Sunking
    replied
    Originally posted by ANIKHTOS View Post
    Ladder Connection of parallel cells what is this connection?? i am new so i do not know the terminology
    That is what you call your 2p2s. It is the[B] Alternative[/B] Connection shown below.




    Originally posted by ANIKHTOS View Post
    the second question about parallel or serial the batteries was asked from the aspect of life of batteries
    better way to manage them

    so not considering the other aspects of the electrical consumption

    having all batteries in parallel or all in series makes a difference??
    Already covered this, Connect batteries in Series and avoid parallel strings unless neessecary. Reason is simple you cannot BALANCE the Battery internal resistance or distribution resistances to keep all currents equal in parallel arrangements. That means there is always one string doing most of the work wearing itself out prematurely. Professional installations can parallel batteries with great success, but you CANNOT because you do not have the money, knowledge, or resources. Pro's use engineered solid copper buses arranged in such a fashion that equalizes circuit resistance so all strings charge charge and load equally. If you must Parallel to obtain the desired capacity limit it to just only 2 parallel strings, or use a Ladder Connection, but with Ladder you need a way to monitor every battery including Specific Gravity.

    If you find yourself using parallel is most likely ignorance. What we see a lot of is folks stuck inside a nasty 12 volt box. All they know is car batteries, and batteries are 12 volts right? Wrong, they are 2 volts, and if you need 12 volts at say 400 AH, there is no such thing as a 12 volt 400 AH battery, as you could not lift it up easily. Largest 12 volt you will likely find is 100 AH forcing you to use 4 of them in parallel. Each weighing around 80 pounds or a total of 320 pounds is what a 12 volt 400 AH battery weighs. The right solution is to use either 3-4 volt 400 AH batteries or 2-6 Volt 400 AH batteries wired in series. Or you could even use 6-2 Volt 400 Ah batteries if the 4 or 6 volts is too heavy for you. [B]Are you one of those stuck inside a 12 Volt Box? [/B]

    Ever hear of 24 and 48 volt systems. 12 volts is for toys and RV's. 12 volts is not capable of delivering larger amounts of power and extremely expensive and inefficient. So if you are stuck inside that 12 volt box, get out of it it. Theere is a much better world outside the 12 volt box you are trapped in.

    On paper a 12 volt 400 AH battery = a 48 volt 100 AH battery. But in practice the 48 volt system is initially lees expensive to install. more efficient, delivers more usable power, and a lot less less expensive to maintain with less frequent battery replacement. Not to mention a whole lot SAFER like 400% safe.

    Leave a comment:


  • SunEagle
    replied
    Originally posted by ANIKHTOS View Post
    Ladder Connection of parallel cells what is this connection?? i am new so i do not know the terminology

    the second question about parallel or serial the batteries was asked from the aspect of life of batteries
    better way to manage them

    so not considering the other aspects of the electrical consumption

    having all batteries in parallel or all in series makes a difference??

    in complexity of charging? managing the batteries? life expendency of the batteries?


    sorry for this but i am new and still learning the terminology

    so the yes was to 2p2s or 2s2p??' i did not understand

    thank you very much for your time and your effort to explain things
    Wiring batteries in parallel ends up getting uneven charging and discharging. When you get uneven you will shorten battery life. Sort of the weakest link will fail first and take down the rest.

    A series wired system does not introduce uneven charging or discharging so it is better then any type of parallel.

    Here is a site that explains different parallel wiring and what the issues are.

    http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html
    Last edited by SunEagle; 09-21-2015, 02:24 PM. Reason: spelling

    Leave a comment:


  • ANIKHTOS
    replied
    hello

    Originally posted by Sunking View Post
    Yes.

    With Solar or Stationary applications you should not parallel any batteries unless necessary, and it is never necessary unless you need more than 4000 AH. You are correct if you use a Ladder Connection of parallel cells, you do have some redundancy if one string should fail. Typically it is just a single cell or battery that fails. This is one reason EV's use Ladder Connections, so they can get home or to a garage if a string fails and not leave them stranded on thee road.

    But there is a catch. An EV has a very sophisticated Battery Management System monitoring every cells and all strings. The operator is immediately altered of a problem. Additionally EV use Lithium batteries and solar uses Pb. Unless you have a BMS monitoring every cell/battery, you will not know you have a dead or open string immediately. In fact unless you monitor and inspect your batteries weekly with a hydrometer, you may never know until your good string has now been worked to death. So now instead of a dead cell/battery in a string, you now have a completely dead and useless battery system you have to replace. So instead of replacing a single bad battery, you now have to replace every battery. Had it been a single string, you would have caught it immediately, and no thave to replace every battery.
    Ladder Connection of parallel cells what is this connection?? i am new so i do not know the terminology

    the second question about parallel or serial the batteries was asked from the aspect of life of batteries
    better way to manage them

    so not considering the other aspects of the electrical consumption

    having all batteries in parallel or all in series makes a difference??

    in complexity of charging? managing the batteries? life expendency of the batteries?


    sorry for this but i am new and still learning the terminology

    so the yes was to 2p2s or 2s2p??' i did not understand

    thank you very much for your time and your effort to explain things

    Leave a comment:


  • Sunking
    replied
    Originally posted by ANIKHTOS View Post
    which configuration is best
    2s2p or 2p2s???

    connect the batteries in series and then in parallel or
    first connect the batteries parallel and the parallel batteries in series?
    Yes.

    With Solar or Stationary applications you should not parallel any batteries unless necessary, and it is never necessary unless you need more than 4000 AH. You are correct if you use a Ladder Connection of parallel cells, you do have some redundancy if one string should fail. Typically it is just a single cell or battery that fails. This is one reason EV's use Ladder Connections, so they can get home or to a garage if a string fails and not leave them stranded on thee road.

    But there is a catch. An EV has a very sophisticated Battery Management System monitoring every cells and all strings. The operator is immediately altered of a problem. Additionally EV use Lithium batteries and solar uses Pb. Unless you have a BMS monitoring every cell/battery, you will not know you have a dead or open string immediately. In fact unless you monitor and inspect your batteries weekly with a hydrometer, you may never know until your good string has now been worked to death. So now instead of a dead cell/battery in a string, you now have a completely dead and useless battery system you have to replace. So instead of replacing a single bad battery, you now have to replace every battery. Had it been a single string, you would have caught it immediately, and no thave to replace every battery.

    Leave a comment:


  • SunEagle
    replied
    Originally posted by ANIKHTOS View Post
    i am new in this forum
    and i did not really now where to post this

    so my question is
    if i have 4 batteries and i want to connect them in series and in parallel so i increase both the volts and the amps

    which configuration is best
    2s2p or 2p2s???

    connect the batteries in series and then in parallel or
    first connect the batteries parallel and the parallel batteries in series?

    both setups seems to be giving the same results
    but from battery perspective is 1 design better?


    as i see it in case 1 battery fails
    2s2p case 1 battery fails so you loose the other battery so you are left with the 2 batteries trying to
    power you so they get both double the normal amp to push
    n case of 2p2s you loose 1 battery but then you have only 1 battery trying to push the double amount of normal amp

    so i see that the design 2p2s has some advantages over 2s2p


    second question

    if you have a number f batteries lets say 5 for the argument
    what will be better
    put them all in parallel and just draw more amps from the pack
    or put them in series and draw fewer amps???

    so from battery perspective which setups is better for the batteries
    parallel or series?

    i have done some dyi in electronics and i know that in electric circuits
    some designs may seem identical but electrical there is a huge difference
    the order you put some components


    thank you all for the replies
    The best wiring arrangement for multiple batteries is all in series.

    The chances of finding 5 batteries at a voltage that adds up to 12, 24, or 48 is pretty slim. Most batteries are in the 2, 4, 6, 8 & 12volt range will allow you to set up a series string using an even number that add up to your desired system voltage.

    As for your first question. Neither (2p2s nor 2s2p ) is better than the other. Losing 1 in a 4 battery system will hurt the entire bank.

    Leave a comment:


  • ANIKHTOS
    started a topic Batteries connection

    Batteries connection

    i am new in this forum
    and i did not really now where to post this

    so my question is
    if i have 4 batteries and i want to connect them in series and in parallel so i increase both the volts and the amps

    which configuration is best
    2s2p or 2p2s???

    connect the batteries in series and then in parallel or
    first connect the batteries parallel and the parallel batteries in series?

    both setups seems to be giving the same results
    but from battery perspective is 1 design better?


    as i see it in case 1 battery fails
    2s2p case 1 battery fails so you loose the other battery so you are left with the 2 batteries trying to
    power you so they get both double the normal amp to push
    n case of 2p2s you loose 1 battery but then you have only 1 battery trying to push the double amount of normal amp

    so i see that the design 2p2s has some advantages over 2s2p


    second question

    if you have a number f batteries lets say 5 for the argument
    what will be better
    put them all in parallel and just draw more amps from the pack
    or put them in series and draw fewer amps???

    so from battery perspective which setups is better for the batteries
    parallel or series?

    i have done some dyi in electronics and i know that in electric circuits
    some designs may seem identical but electrical there is a huge difference
    the order you put some components


    thank you all for the replies
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