AGM sealed batteries OK inside house?

[Calgirl]

I am planning on buying a couple deep cycle 12V AGM sealed batteries. I want to put the batteries and all the control equipment in a cabinet in my rec. room inside the house and just one wall away from where the panels will be. Do you'all think it is safe to have sealed AGM batteries inside of the house?

[Mike90250]

Only till something breaks and overcharges them. They should be treated as lead acid, and can vent Hydrogen and Oxygen, and the container they are in (even a rubbermaid tote) should be vented to the outdoors.

[Sunking]

As long as the area has ventilation it will be fine. Hydrogen does not reach combustion until the air reaches 4% saturation minimum.

Put it too you this way. All those cell towers you see everywhere have VRLA batteries that would make most home RE systems look like a couple of AA batteries. Those building are on average are 10 x10. Here is a picture of one.

[Calgirl]

Thanks Mike and Sunking....

Wow! It doesn't look like you would want to brush up against that VRLA battery rack!

I feel better about them being inside now...eventually I will have 4-12 V batteries which I will contain in ABS plastic with ventillation. My charge controller has all the safety contraptions, so I am fairly confident I will not have an overcharge situation. I'm even taking precautions against a lightening strike, as we have lots of storms here in northern Fla.

[Sunking]

Calgirl what voltage are you running, and what Amp Hour Rating are you shooting for? Unless you are aiming for a 48 volt system 4-12 volt batteries is not a real good idea.

[Sunking]

Wow! It doesn't look like you would want to brush up against that VRLA battery rack!

Well batteries cannot be installed in a residence this way as it is not code compliant for residential. These are in a RESTRICTED ACCESS area where only qualified personnel are allowed to enter.

Brushing up against them will not hurt you (providing no conductive objects) as each cell is only 2 volts which with 12 in series is 24 volts. However if you were to say short out a cell, two, or more with say a wrench slipping while tightening a connection, you would not likely live through it as you and the building would be incinerated.

FWIW if you look closely there is Lexan Glass covers on the batteries. See the POWER SAFE logo printed on them?

[Calgirl]

Sunking

I plan to start with two 12 volt AGM's with amp hour ratings over 100....haven't settled on which ones yet....want to check and see what is available locally and buy here if I can. As time goes by and I gain experience, I expect to add on to the system. If I don't care for solar assist in my home, I will move it to my hobby building and use it to power some of my hobby machines. I will probably have to use a 48V system for the hobby machines.

I have a Sunforce 4500W pure sine wave inverter. My charge controller is a Xantrex C40.

Why do you say that I cannot wire 4 - 12 V batteries in my bank to be used for a 12 V system? I'd like to get up over the 400 amp hour range.

[Mike90250]

Here's a great article about connecting batteries in parallel (on the diagonal)
http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html (connect batteries on diagonal )

and some other battery stuff:

http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm (short & sweet)
http://www.batteryfaq.org/ (very large)

Generally, much easier t manage 2, 6V in series, than 2, 12V in parallel. Same wattage.

Adding batteries later is a bad idea, the used ones have "aged" and will quickly "age" the brand new ones. 1 or 2 months difference is acceptable, but more, and you are wasting resources.

Don't forget a fuse on your battery, I love the simple and compact MRBF terminal fuse by blue sea (MRBF - Marine Rated Battery Fuse)

Get the fuse & holder.

[Sunking]

I have a Sunforce 4500W pure sine wave inverter. My charge controller is a Xantrex C40.

Wow I would never use more than a 1000 watt inverter on a 12 volt system, even 1000 watts is pushing it.. Do you understand the the current involved, size of wiring and breaker requirementsand voltage drop problems for that? Your two 12 volt 100 amp batteries are no where near enough capacity to operate that inverter to full power.

Why do you say that I cannot wire 4 - 12 V batteries in my bank to be used for a 12 V system? I'd like to get up over the 400 amp hour range.

I never siad you cannot use 4 12 volt batteries in parallel. I said it was not a good idea because it will just be about impossible to keep them properly equalized. You want to design so only 1 single string of batteries is required.

[Calgirl]

Mike & Sunking

O.K. let me do some reading on the links and the Sunforce manual. Mike, I had forgotten about the "aging" issue with batteries....thanks for the reminder. Incidentally, I read that you do not equalize AGM batteries....was that wrong? I think my Xantrex C40 manual had that info.

I appreciate all the help fellas.......down the road, I want to hook up the refrigerator and microwave, computer, coffee pot, a room AC, and even the forced air AC (if I can get away with it) .etc.....that's why I bought such a large inverter. Maybe I should wait to hook everything up until I have a larger battery bank and many more panels. My plan was to add to the system as I go along.......but, at least with the batteries, that's not feasible unless I want to take the loss (thanks again, Mike). I want to be prepared incase all hell breaks loose in America not to mention the environment and hurricanes.

We are having trouble here with thieves stealing AC's and water pumps as it is.......I live in a gated community with large lots & lots of trees, etc., which make it easy for thieves.

[russ]

Hi Calgirl - Look at the Trojan Presentation pdf that Sunking supplied. It is a great document on batteries.

Russ

[Mike90250]

Incidentally, I read that you do not equalize AGM batteries....was that wrong? I think my Xantrex C40 manual had that info.

That's correct, EQ will generally damage them. Most charge controllers have adjustments for type of battery and optional EQ cycles.

[Calgirl]

Mike & Sunking

Yes, my charge controller does everything except cook supper.....my issue is the inverter which only accepts 12 V input. The manual specifies all wire sizes, etc. I think I will put up a backboard and figure out the placement of all the stuff.....I want to isolate the batteries from the rest of the equipment in the cabinet and install an exhaust fan to outside to service both the battery section and the electronic section. The charge controller dissipates
overcharge voltage thru it's heatsink and I want to keep the equipment as cool as possible. I'm a telephone company retiree and want to do nice cable runs and make everything pretty, don't you know! I also need to buy 2 ground rod/clamps and get them installed. One ground rod will be specifically for the lightning arrester. This sure is fun! The inverter tops out at 9000 "soft" start-up voltage. I don't think it will handle my forced AC/heater compressor....which reminds me, I want to call the company that just installed my new HVAC system and ask what the start up surge value is. Still reading the info recommended and finding it helpful.......Thanks

[Sunking]

I'm a telephone company retiree and want to do nice cable runs and make everything pretty, don't you know!

OK I am a PPE from the Telco world. So you ought to smell a rat when you look at the suggested cable sizes in the manual. #1 AWG for a 375 amp circuit. Anything sound fishy about that?

Forget running your air conditioner or any high wattage items, it would be very foolish. The battery cost will be as much as your house. Well you can if you like paying 10 times more for electricity in 5 year increments up front in cash.

[Calgirl]

Sunking

[QUOTE=Sunking;17599]OK I am a PPE from the Telco world. So you ought to smell a rat when you look at the suggested cable sizes in the manual. #1 AWG for a 375 amp circuit. Anything sound fishy about that?QUOTE]

Gotta be a typo......what manual?

I'm a retired Mtce. Crew Supv....was a Operating Room Nurse but got tired of freezing to death all day...so went to work for telco as a mtce. splicer.

Think I'm going to go with the Trojan 31 AGM batteries.

What do you think of this panel formula..glass, thin layer of Sylgard or Solar-Tite, cells, topped off with spray PlastiCote...(same stuff as on handles of pliers, etc.) That way a container of Sylgard would do maybe 3 panels.