Please Help me to understand FLA battery.

[Sunking]

Is the only industrial and premium brand on Trojan batteries are using the active carbon for negative plates? I know the industrial line, but which is the premium line?

Here you go. The 2, 4 and 6 volt RE batts. T-105RE, LR16RE-A, LR16RE-B, and LR16RE-2V. NO !@ VOLTS. If you can find them in Jam and can afford them look at the IND lineup. They go up to 2 volt 2000 AH.With the IND lineup. No restriction of C rates other than do not go below C/12 charge rate. No problem with a 1C discharge or C/2 charge rate. With proper care you should easily get 10 years out of them. And if they can do half of what they claim, beyond 10 years. But beware non of the PbC batteries have NOT been in service for very long, so no historical data to back it up. But with that said I am confident of 10 years from what I have ascertained from Sandia Labs and DOE field test.

[paulcheung]

We have a few solar PV dealers that carry Rolls, Trojan and other brand of deep cycle batteries. The T105 is sell for $17,000 in Ja. compare to $120 in the US, and the Rolls S-530 sell for $40,000 Ja. compare to $340 in the US. I guess the different is the shipping cost. The Trojan IND13-6V would suit me well with 670amps hours. It sell for $1100 in the US. I wonder how much will be cost me here. well hope I don't need them until 5 years from now. I start my two set of batteries last year August.

Thank you.

[Sunking]

We have a few solar PV dealers that carry Rolls, Trojan and other brand of deep cycle batteries. The T105 is sell for $17,000 in Ja. compare to $120 in the US, and the Rolls S-530 sell for $40,000 Ja. compare to $340 in the US. I guess the different is the shipping cost. The Trojan IND13-6V would suit me well with 670amps hours. It sell for $1100 in the US. I wonder how much will be cost me here. well hope I don't need them until 5 years from now. I start my two set of batteries last year August.

Paul you need to convert JMD TO USD for us. Today $1 USD = 111 JMD so that T-105 cost $17,000 JMD / 110 = $154 USD. Really sad I was in Jamaica less than a year ago and the conversion was $1 USD = $92 JMD. That tells me inflation and the economy in Jamaica is getting worse. Great for tourist, but really bad for the citizens of Jamaica.

[PNjunction]

Trojan is the only one available to the public.

Or you can pick up an Exide Edge agm which uses carbon-graphite to test. Mostly SLI, but there is one dual-purpose marine deep cycle with the carbon-graphite. Most of what I've researched about it seems like it is intended for the micro-hybrid vehicle application. ICE engine with a lot of full engine stop/starts at stoplights etc, rather than a true hybrid vehicle battery.

Supposedly Pbc is an improvement, although I've only seen marketing charts in SLI duty, and not true deep cycle. Getting through hyped marketing and investor pitches to find the hard core engineering details may prove difficult. However I'd look at SAE J240, SAE J2801 for Pbc and see if something comes up, however it is likely to be limited to automotive and not our application.

While I needed another battery like a hole in the head, I was happy to see Pbc available over the counter. So perhaps Pbc in flooded format would prove beneficial somehow.

[paulcheung]

Paul you need to convert JMD TO USD for us. Today $1 USD = 111 JMD so that T-105 cost $17,000 JMD / 110 = $154 USD. Really sad I was in Jamaica less than a year ago and the conversion was $1 USD = $92 JMD. That tells me inflation and the economy in Jamaica is getting worse. Great for tourist, but really bad for the citizens of Jamaica.

Yes it is very sad, the government has to comply with the IMF, IMF demand Jamaican Dollars to devalue. Say Jamaican Dollars is too strong for our economy, and they demand wage freeze for the public servants too. and the stupid government said the devaluation is good for exporter and I don't see Jamaican export any thing at all.

Thanks.

[paulcheung]

Or you can pick up an Exide Edge agm which uses carbon-graphite to test. Mostly SLI, but there is one dual-purpose marine deep cycle with the carbon-graphite. Most of what I've researched about it seems like it is intended for the micro-hybrid vehicle application. ICE engine with a lot of full engine stop/starts at stoplights etc, rather than a true hybrid vehicle battery.

Supposedly Pbc is an improvement, although I've only seen marketing charts in SLI duty, and not true deep cycle. Getting through hyped marketing and investor pitches to find the hard core engineering details may prove difficult. However I'd look at SAE J240, SAE J2801 for Pbc and see if something comes up, however it is likely to be limited to automotive and not our application.

While I needed another battery like a hole in the head, I was happy to see Pbc available over the counter. So perhaps Pbc in flooded format would prove beneficial somehow.

Well I don't if there is any other benefits but the PSOC alone will benefit us offgriders a lot.

[Sunking]

stupid government said the devaluation is good for exporter and I don't see Jamaican export any thing at all.

Jamaica does have a few exports. Rum is the number 1 export, and Ganja is number 2 but the goberment does not collect any tax or GNP off Ganja sales. Here in Panama word is Jamaica is about to legalize Ganja for Recreational use to get more tourist and generate tax revenue.

[inetdog]

...Here in Panama word is Jamaica is about to legalize Ganja for Recreational use to get more tourist and generate tax revenue.

Trying to compete with Colorado for the winter tourist business for non-skiers maybe?

[ChrisOlson]

Well I don't if there is any other benefits but the PSOC alone will benefit us offgriders a lot.

I'll be happy to let somebody else guinea pig it. I know you can PSOC lead-acid too without any adverse effects if done properly. What is the cost of these Smart Carbon batteries compared to the "regular" ones? Anybody seen prices on them yet?

[paulcheung]

I'll be happy to let somebody else guinea pig it. I know you can PSOC lead-acid too without any adverse effects if done properly. What is the cost of these Smart Carbon batteries compared to the "regular" ones? Anybody seen prices on them yet?

The Trojan IND13-6V is 6volt 673 amp hours for $998 on Ebay and the Trojan IND17-6V is 6volt 897 amps hour for $1260 on wind and sun. So is a little bit more than the Rolls 5000 series or about the same price.

[ChrisOlson]

and the Trojan IND17-6V is 6volt 897 amps hour for $1260 on wind and sun

I wouldn't buy a Chinese trinket off eBay. Wouldn't buy batteries online in the first place. I go to brick and mortar dealer to get batteries where there's no surprises on shipping costs.

Those 897'ers are just regular flooded lead-acid. It don't anything about them having "Smart Carbon".

And not only that, "Smart Carbon" probably isn't any better than Dumb Lead anyway. Like I thought - mostly marketing hype after I did a little checking on it:

http://usbatterypower.blogspot.ca/2014/03/new-carbon-additives-may-not-be-best.html

[inetdog]

Those 897'ers are just regular flooded lead-acid. It don't anything about them having "Smart Carbon".

According to the Trojan data sheets that Dereck linked to a few posts up, ALL current production IND series (and Premium series) batteries now have Smart Carbon.
What I do not see a good description of is how the use of "various carbon additives" "in the battery" compares to using carbon negative plates.
Maybe same thing, maybe not.

[ChrisOlson]

What I do not see a good description of is how the use of "various carbon additives" "in the battery" compares to using carbon negative plates.
Maybe same thing, maybe not.

They're not going to tell you that either. I smell marketing hype here - very strong stench.

[PNjunction]

Instead of marketing, how about Exides patent. 2012 and 2014 especially relevant.

http://www.faqs.org/patents/assignee/exide-technologies/

and some other light reading:

https://www.google.com/patents/US20120171564

It all boils down to better Psoc and better charge acceptance. Toss in less sulfation.

All these manufacturers should just duke it out in the UBC Octagon. I'm especially looking forward to the middleweight Axion vs Aquion bout.

For me, Exide wins because I can get my hands on one in 10 minutes. Pbc for the common man!

[paulcheung]

They're not going to tell you that either. I smell marketing hype here - very strong stench.

Well Chris, Marketing hype or not, if what Dereck said in the previous post is correct, that the IND line can accept charge up to 2C rating and discharge up to 1C rating then that alone will win over the older design. We can pump as much current into it like AGM batteries and pay the same price as the FLA batteries. That is a win to me. Let hope the technology get better in time so the solar industry will get more popular so price of the battery will come down.