Please Help me to understand FLA battery.

[inetdog]

Those 897'ers are just regular flooded lead-acid. It don't anything about them having "Smart Carbon".

According to the Trojan data sheets that Dereck linked to a few posts up, ALL current production IND series (and Premium series) batteries now have Smart Carbon.
What I do not see a good description of is how the use of "various carbon additives" "in the battery" compares to using carbon negative plates.
Maybe same thing, maybe not.

[ChrisOlson]

and the Trojan IND17-6V is 6volt 897 amps hour for $1260 on wind and sun

I wouldn't buy a Chinese trinket off eBay. Wouldn't buy batteries online in the first place. I go to brick and mortar dealer to get batteries where there's no surprises on shipping costs.

Those 897'ers are just regular flooded lead-acid. It don't anything about them having "Smart Carbon".

And not only that, "Smart Carbon" probably isn't any better than Dumb Lead anyway. Like I thought - mostly marketing hype after I did a little checking on it:

http://usbatterypower.blogspot.ca/2014/03/new-carbon-additives-may-not-be-best.html

[paulcheung]

I'll be happy to let somebody else guinea pig it. I know you can PSOC lead-acid too without any adverse effects if done properly. What is the cost of these Smart Carbon batteries compared to the "regular" ones? Anybody seen prices on them yet?

The Trojan IND13-6V is 6volt 673 amp hours for $998 on Ebay and the Trojan IND17-6V is 6volt 897 amps hour for $1260 on wind and sun. So is a little bit more than the Rolls 5000 series or about the same price.

[ChrisOlson]

Well I don't if there is any other benefits but the PSOC alone will benefit us offgriders a lot.

I'll be happy to let somebody else guinea pig it. I know you can PSOC lead-acid too without any adverse effects if done properly. What is the cost of these Smart Carbon batteries compared to the "regular" ones? Anybody seen prices on them yet?

[inetdog]

...Here in Panama word is Jamaica is about to legalize Ganja for Recreational use to get more tourist and generate tax revenue.

Trying to compete with Colorado for the winter tourist business for non-skiers maybe?

[Sunking]

stupid government said the devaluation is good for exporter and I don't see Jamaican export any thing at all.

Jamaica does have a few exports. Rum is the number 1 export, and Ganja is number 2 but the goberment does not collect any tax or GNP off Ganja sales. Here in Panama word is Jamaica is about to legalize Ganja for Recreational use to get more tourist and generate tax revenue.

[paulcheung]

Or you can pick up an Exide Edge agm which uses carbon-graphite to test. Mostly SLI, but there is one dual-purpose marine deep cycle with the carbon-graphite. Most of what I've researched about it seems like it is intended for the micro-hybrid vehicle application. ICE engine with a lot of full engine stop/starts at stoplights etc, rather than a true hybrid vehicle battery.

Supposedly Pbc is an improvement, although I've only seen marketing charts in SLI duty, and not true deep cycle. Getting through hyped marketing and investor pitches to find the hard core engineering details may prove difficult. However I'd look at SAE J240, SAE J2801 for Pbc and see if something comes up, however it is likely to be limited to automotive and not our application.

While I needed another battery like a hole in the head, I was happy to see Pbc available over the counter. So perhaps Pbc in flooded format would prove beneficial somehow.

Well I don't if there is any other benefits but the PSOC alone will benefit us offgriders a lot.

[paulcheung]

Paul you need to convert JMD TO USD for us. Today $1 USD = 111 JMD so that T-105 cost $17,000 JMD / 110 = $154 USD. Really sad I was in Jamaica less than a year ago and the conversion was $1 USD = $92 JMD. That tells me inflation and the economy in Jamaica is getting worse. Great for tourist, but really bad for the citizens of Jamaica.

Yes it is very sad, the government has to comply with the IMF, IMF demand Jamaican Dollars to devalue. Say Jamaican Dollars is too strong for our economy, and they demand wage freeze for the public servants too. and the stupid government said the devaluation is good for exporter and I don't see Jamaican export any thing at all.

Thanks.

[PNjunction]

Trojan is the only one available to the public.

Or you can pick up an Exide Edge agm which uses carbon-graphite to test. Mostly SLI, but there is one dual-purpose marine deep cycle with the carbon-graphite. Most of what I've researched about it seems like it is intended for the micro-hybrid vehicle application. ICE engine with a lot of full engine stop/starts at stoplights etc, rather than a true hybrid vehicle battery.

Supposedly Pbc is an improvement, although I've only seen marketing charts in SLI duty, and not true deep cycle. Getting through hyped marketing and investor pitches to find the hard core engineering details may prove difficult. However I'd look at SAE J240, SAE J2801 for Pbc and see if something comes up, however it is likely to be limited to automotive and not our application.

While I needed another battery like a hole in the head, I was happy to see Pbc available over the counter. So perhaps Pbc in flooded format would prove beneficial somehow.

[Sunking]

We have a few solar PV dealers that carry Rolls, Trojan and other brand of deep cycle batteries. The T105 is sell for $17,000 in Ja. compare to $120 in the US, and the Rolls S-530 sell for $40,000 Ja. compare to $340 in the US. I guess the different is the shipping cost. The Trojan IND13-6V would suit me well with 670amps hours. It sell for $1100 in the US. I wonder how much will be cost me here. well hope I don't need them until 5 years from now. I start my two set of batteries last year August.

Paul you need to convert JMD TO USD for us. Today $1 USD = 111 JMD so that T-105 cost $17,000 JMD / 110 = $154 USD. Really sad I was in Jamaica less than a year ago and the conversion was $1 USD = $92 JMD. That tells me inflation and the economy in Jamaica is getting worse. Great for tourist, but really bad for the citizens of Jamaica.

[paulcheung]

We have a few solar PV dealers that carry Rolls, Trojan and other brand of deep cycle batteries. The T105 is sell for $17,000 in Ja. compare to $120 in the US, and the Rolls S-530 sell for $40,000 Ja. compare to $340 in the US. I guess the different is the shipping cost. The Trojan IND13-6V would suit me well with 670amps hours. It sell for $1100 in the US. I wonder how much will be cost me here. well hope I don't need them until 5 years from now. I start my two set of batteries last year August.

Thank you.

[Sunking]

Is the only industrial and premium brand on Trojan batteries are using the active carbon for negative plates? I know the industrial line, but which is the premium line?

Here you go. The 2, 4 and 6 volt RE batts. T-105RE, LR16RE-A, LR16RE-B, and LR16RE-2V. NO !@ VOLTS. If you can find them in Jam and can afford them look at the IND lineup. They go up to 2 volt 2000 AH.With the IND lineup. No restriction of C rates other than do not go below C/12 charge rate. No problem with a 1C discharge or C/2 charge rate. With proper care you should easily get 10 years out of them. And if they can do half of what they claim, beyond 10 years. But beware non of the PbC batteries have NOT been in service for very long, so no historical data to back it up. But with that said I am confident of 10 years from what I have ascertained from Sandia Labs and DOE field test.

[paulcheung]

Is the only industrial and premium brand on Trojan batteries are using the active carbon for negative plates? I know the industrial line, but which is the premium line?

Thank you.

[Sunking]

Are these batteries readily available now? at what price range? Thanks

Trojan is the only one available to the public. All the others are utility, government utility, military, and EV manufactures only at this time.

Well if you can afford a production run they might sell to John Doe Public.

[paulcheung]

It is not BS Chris. PbC is the real deal and changes a 3000 cycle battery to a over 10,000 to 100% DOD. They are the only lead acid battery that can work PSOC range without damage. They could easily knock Lithium out of the market. Kia motors has already tossed lithium out and uses PbC in their EV.

They are quite real and 4 manufactures are making them who are Furukawa DEKA, Axiom, and now Trojan. There is a ton of info from reliable sources out there I suggest you go look at them like this one from Sandia National Labs. If they can deliver half of what they claim is a Quantum leap in battery tech. Test results from Sandia indicate 30,000 cycles to 100% DOD.

Are these batteries readily available now? at what price range? Thanks