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  • SunEagle
    replied
    Originally posted by Jabroni View Post

    The amps being pumped in were very low.

    Scenario:
    - load is put on
    - voltage sinks in 15 minutes / SOC barely moves a few points
    - AGS gets voltage back to healthy level in short time / meanwhile amps being pumped in arent at the level they normally are when the batteries are low

    I really think the installer wired the AGS wrong and it was not getting a proper voltage reading. We'll find out soon enough tho.
    I also hope that the AGS wiring was the issue. I am still not confidant that the battery system was properly sized for your actual loading. Unfortunately under sizing a system is a very common mistake for more first time off grid systems.
    Last edited by SunEagle; 01-15-2017, 05:33 PM.

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  • Jabroni
    replied
    Originally posted by Bala View Post
    Ok, yes I had not read every post so assumed you have been double cycles the whole time.
    No worries. That's been the least of the miscommunications in this thread. At least you're not telling me my solar chargers dont exist. hahaha

    You were asking about temp v capacity loss, I cant find where you posted temps.

    the full river site shows a graph, basically 0.f will reduce capacity to 60%

    they also have a graph of cycle life, at 50% DOD cycles, capacity starts to drop after 400 cycles.

    Sorry to hard for me to post links, pics, you will have to find them on the site and confirm what I just posted.
    I saw the links/pics you're referencing. That's what got me looking at my old temp data. It was pretty significant.

    I know these batteries swell up really well, I have taken them out of my bosses caravan after less than two years.

    good FLA batteries talk in many 1000s of cycles of life, These batteries talk in 100s.

    I dont think they are a good option for daily cycle use, I think they are designed for caravans etc where generally they are on float and cycled every now and then.

    I needed zero maintenance batteries.

    And as Ive said, I never thought I'd be here full-time like this. Never thought being here full-time would be a issue either. But oh well.

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  • Sunking
    replied
    Originally posted by Bala View Post
    good FLA batteries talk in many 1000s of cycles of life, These batteries talk in 100s.

    I dont think they are a good option for daily cycle use, I think they are designed for caravans etc where generally they are on float and cycled every now and then.
    Don't confuse him with facts, he does not want to know anything about batteries or his system.
    Last edited by Sunking; 01-15-2017, 12:39 PM.

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  • Bala
    replied
    Ok, yes I had not read every post so assumed you have been double cycles the whole time.

    You were asking about temp v capacity loss, I cant find where you posted temps.

    the full river site shows a graph, basically 0.f will reduce capacity to 60%

    they also have a graph of cycle life, at 50% DOD cycles, capacity starts to drop after 400 cycles.

    Sorry to hard for me to post links, pics, you will have to find them on the site and confirm what I just posted.

    I know these batteries swell up really well, I have taken them out of my bosses caravan after less than two years.

    good FLA batteries talk in many 1000s of cycles of life, These batteries talk in 100s.

    I dont think they are a good option for daily cycle use, I think they are designed for caravans etc where generally they are on float and cycled every now and then.





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  • Jabroni
    replied
    Originally posted by Bala View Post
    Yes batteries can fail over night you only need 1 cell to fail in the string to kill the whole lot.

    This is also from one of your earlier posts.

    "Each Fullriver DC Series, Full Force and Full Throttle batteries are designed to be deeply discharged and recharged hundreds of times. With the sealed, maintenance-free aspect of all our AGM batteries, you can simply "Set it" and Forget it"."

    The generator was only being used twice a day to recharge the batteries"

    So full river are telling you the truth, you can deeply discharge them "HUNDREDS of times" I think you said you have had them 9 months and had to run the genset twice a day so in effect 2 cycles per day.

    9 months x 30 days = 270 then times 2 cycles per day = 540 cycles, so you have had the "Hundreds of cycles" they claim is possible.


    The installer checked for bad cells and could not find anything. Granted, this is the same idiot that installed the system and the AGS. So until I get a 2nd (and more thorough) opinion out here I cant rule out that the batteries are indeed toast. But I can't blindly blame the batteries either. There are a few plausible theories that I'd like to rule out before going and buying new batteries. The point of this thread was to see if anyone had seen AGS issues before.

    I never ran the geni twice a day for 9 months. Never said that. I actually have explained on multiple occasions in this threat that during the Spring/Summer/Fall the system had minimal loads on it at night (5 amps), and during the day the panels kept up with the loads. There's a deliberate reason I went "backwards" on the PV-to-battery ratio.

    November is when I started spending longer periods of time up at the property. Due to a rash of break-ins & vandalism Ive had to stay out here and guard the place all winter. Me living out here full-time was not the plan.

    My system did what it was designed to do for most of it's time. And while I was living here this winter I was asking more of the system than I ever thought I'd be. Albeit, I didnt think there would be a problem with putting 3000w loads on the system other than wearing out the batteries sooner. Im no solar expert. If a "professional" tells me I have a 4k inverter & 830 ahr battery bank and Im allowed to run it down half way, then that is what Im going to do. And up until the AGS was installed, it wasnt giving me a problem.

    I had no idea how big a factor ambient temperature was. And I didnt notice the correlation until going thru the MagWeb history. Did the batteries take abuse? Yes. Enough to cause them to be ruined overnight? Maybe. But I gotta look at the correlating factors of that sudden drop off. One is the AGS and the other is the ambient temp.
    Last edited by Jabroni; 01-14-2017, 11:00 PM.

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  • Higher-Ground Farm
    replied
    I had one set that failed hard. One battery out of the set started to heat up uncontrollably, I had to bring it outside because it got too hot, I thought it was going to catch fire.

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  • Bala
    replied
    Yes batteries can fail over night you only need 1 cell to fail in the string to kill the whole lot.

    This is also from one of your earlier posts.

    "Each Fullriver DC Series, Full Force and Full Throttle batteries are designed to be deeply discharged and recharged hundreds of times. With the sealed, maintenance-free aspect of all our AGM batteries, you can simply "Set it" and Forget it"."

    The generator was only being used twice a day to recharge the batteries"

    So full river are telling you the truth, you can deeply discharge them "HUNDREDS of times" I think you said you have had them 9 months and had to run the genset twice a day so in effect 2 cycles per day.

    9 months x 30 days = 270 then times 2 cycles per day = 540 cycles, so you have had the "Hundreds of cycles" they claim is possible.



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  • Jabroni
    replied
    Originally posted by Higher-Ground Farm View Post
    Having gone through 3 sets of batteries. When they start to fail, they fail quick.
    Overnight?

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  • Higher-Ground Farm
    replied
    Having gone through 3 sets of batteries. When they start to fail, they fail quick.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jabroni
    replied
    Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post

    Classic indication of sulphated batteries, they charge right up, and go right down, because they are only 20ah batteries now, not 300ah
    Or batteries that have lost a ton of performance due to a sudden & drastic drop in temperature?

    Weather conditions took a VERY steep dive at the same time the AGS was installed. This situation could have nothing to do with the AGS, and be because it's been freezing temps every night. That would at least explain the coincidence of everything.

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  • Jabroni
    replied
    Originally posted by Sunqueen View Post

    That is screaming at you the batteries are TOAST. All of us know it except you.

    You calling someone obtuse is oh so rich. Thx for the laugh.

    Tell me again about my solar chargers that don't exist.

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  • inetdog
    replied
    Originally posted by Higher-Ground Farm View Post
    What's the magic bullet? There must be some easy way to fix the batteries..... LOL
    Unfortunately, the only magic bullet for hard sulphated batteries is to shoot them and then bury them. (figuratively. Please dispose of old lead acid batteries properly.)

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  • Higher-Ground Farm
    replied
    What's the magic bullet? There must be some easy way to fix the batteries..... LOL

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  • Mike90250
    replied
    The problem is, I can run the generator for 4 hours, and then once the geni shuts off, within 15 minutes the load has killed the voltage again, so the geni runs for another 4 hours? That's just a big waste of gas at that point. I dont want to be running the generator 20+ hours a day (be it constant or turning on/off 40x a day).
    Classic indication of sulphated batteries, they charge right up, and go right down, because they are only 20ah batteries now, not 300ah

    Leave a comment:


  • Sunking
    replied
    Originally posted by Jabroni View Post
    Scenario:
    - load is put on
    - voltage sinks in 15 minutes / SOC barely moves a few points
    - AGS gets voltage back to healthy level in short time / meanwhile amps being pumped in arent at the level they normally are when the batteries are low

    The problem is, I can run the generator for 4 hours, and then once the geni shuts off, within 15 minutes the load has killed the voltage again,
    That is screaming at you the batteries are TOAST. All of us know it except you.

    You just described a classic dead battery. Charge it up, batteries will not take much current, put a load on, and the voltage collapses. DUH!

    You destroyed them from abuse, improper design, and ignorance. It is all on you. Your battery should never ever go below 24.4 volts (6.1 volts per battery) and you allowed then to go to fully discharged (24.0 volts) many many times.
    Last edited by Sunking; 01-14-2017, 09:05 PM.

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