Batteries wont hold Voltage...

[Jabroni]

The problem with most people is that they are unaware of how the automated part of the charging system works. A charger that provides an SOC of your battery is only measuring the voltage which is very misleading.

Having AGM or sealed batteries exasperate the problem because you can't get an SOC reading using a hydrometer to measure the specific gravity of the acid content.. Getting the SG is the only positive way of knowing your battery SOC. Batteries that are starting to fail will be able to get their voltage raised but it will not stay there and will quickly drop under load.

A quick way of knowing your battery is on the way out is if it gets to "full charge" quickly based on the charger measuring the voltage. As Bala points out knowing the amount of amps being pumped into the battery gets you a better picture of what it's SOC may be but that still will not be as accurate as a measured SG.

The amps being pumped in were very low.

Scenario:
- load is put on
- voltage sinks in 15 minutes / SOC barely moves a few points
- AGS gets voltage back to healthy level in short time / meanwhile amps being pumped in arent at the level they normally are when the batteries are low

I really think the installer wired the AGS wrong and it was not getting a proper voltage reading. We'll find out soon enough tho.

[Jabroni]

"Here's where the problems started... Immediately after the auto-start was installed, I can no longer get the 5+ hours of usage out of my batteries with a 3000w load. It takes about 15 minutes for the voltage to sink to unsafe levels so the auto-start kicks on to protect the batteries. The geni runs for 20 minutes or so, bringing the voltage back up to a healthy level and then the generator shuts down. 15 minutes later the cycle repeats itself."

"Auto-Start on Voltage: originally set to 23.8v and to shut off at 28.8"

The above are from your first two posts, Im not sure if you have an answer to your original question but I have an idea.

As has been said voltage is not a good indicator of SOC, if your batteries are down to 23.8 they are not going to get up to a decent SOC in 20 minutes.

Instead of an off voltage for your autostart you need to set a run time for the genset, unless you can turn it off by amps reading.

When I charge off the genset my voltage will be at 28.4 within a few minutes but it will take a couple of hrs for the amps to drop from initial 60 odd to approx 20 where the battereis are at a high SOC.

You need to work out what run time is needed for your system

I see what you're getting at. And Ive adjusted those settings since talking to Magnum. The absorb time is set longer and Im no longer using 28.8v as the off marker.

The problem is, I can run the generator for 4 hours, and then once the geni shuts off, within 15 minutes the load has killed the voltage again, so the geni runs for another 4 hours? That's just a big waste of gas at that point. I dont want to be running the generator 20+ hours a day (be it constant or turning on/off 40x a day).

There's still a very strong possibility that the AGS was wired wrong and Ive finally gotten a bead on how it was done improperly. I have an electrician and a solar expert coming to double check the setup. So I'll get a answer one way or the other on that front. The original installer would not even double check that aspect of his setup when he came out to diagnose the situation. That sorta stubborness and his unwillingness to acknowledge the symptoms were enough for me to lose all faith in his abilities.

[SunEagle]

The problem with most people is that they are unaware of how the automated part of the charging system works. A charger that provides an SOC of your battery is only measuring the voltage which is very misleading.

Having AGM or sealed batteries exasperate the problem because you can't get an SOC reading using a hydrometer to measure the specific gravity of the acid content.. Getting the SG is the only positive way of knowing your battery SOC. Batteries that are starting to fail will be able to get their voltage raised but it will not stay there and will quickly drop under load.

A quick way of knowing your battery is on the way out is if it gets to "full charge" quickly based on the charger measuring the voltage. As Bala points out knowing the amount of amps being pumped into the battery gets you a better picture of what it's SOC may be but that still will not be as accurate as a measured SG.

[Higher-Ground Farm]

Seems logical. It is a good point.

[Bala]

"Here's where the problems started... Immediately after the auto-start was installed, I can no longer get the 5+ hours of usage out of my batteries with a 3000w load. It takes about 15 minutes for the voltage to sink to unsafe levels so the auto-start kicks on to protect the batteries. The geni runs for 20 minutes or so, bringing the voltage back up to a healthy level and then the generator shuts down. 15 minutes later the cycle repeats itself."

"Auto-Start on Voltage: originally set to 23.8v and to shut off at 28.8"

The above are from your first two posts, Im not sure if you have an answer to your original question but I have an idea.

As has been said voltage is not a good indicator of SOC, if your batteries are down to 23.8 they are not going to get up to a decent SOC in 20 minutes.

Instead of an off voltage for your autostart you need to set a run time for the genset, unless you can turn it off by amps reading.

When I charge off the genset my voltage will be at 28.4 within a few minutes but it will take a couple of hrs for the amps to drop from initial 60 odd to approx 20 where the battereis are at a high SOC.

You need to work out what run time is needed for your system

[Sunking]

You were convinced my 100-amp solar chargers didnt exist, as well as convinced I was only getting 1440w from my solar array.

Sure abou that because you claimed to have a single 60 - Amp Controller. Then you changed it to a 2 Magnum 100 _ Amp. Which lie is true?

Garbage In and Garbage out. You did not even know what you had. I do not care if you want my help or not, there is nothing you can do about it. We are making sure no one else repeats your mistake.

[Jabroni]

Can you believe that someone who lives off-grid does not want to know anything about his system.

You're missing the point (again). I dont want any help from you.

You were convinced my 100-amp solar chargers didnt exist, as well as convinced I was only getting 1440w from my solar array. Both assertions were blatantly false. You're not credible.

All you have proven is what a blowhard you are.

[Sunking]

Wow, this thread is the most entertaining and educational I have read in a long time. I'm glad I have thick leathery skin! I am sort of in the same boat as the OP. (not to hijack this thread). Although the difference is, I did it to myself.

Did you dump $30K into it with out asking any questions, trust a used care salesman to pick everything for you, or could careless how it works, operates or put together? I think not. Do not learn the hardway, educate yourself. Keep in mind anything you take off grid is going to cost you 5 to 10 times more than commercial power and rather you like it or not a new part time job for life with no days off. Never ever trust your salesman. You tell them what you want and shop around.

I can tell you where to start and walks you through the process. Read these stickies then you will have a fair idea and suddenly realize just how expensive it is. Once you read the stickies then you will be able to ask good questions and have some idea of what you are asking for. Like I said we can fix ignorance, be no one can fix stupid.

Off Grid Design.
Inverter vs Battery Size.
Battery Tutorial
Are You Sure
How To Kill Your Battery
How To Charge

[Higher-Ground Farm]

Wow, this thread is the most entertaining and educational I have read in a long time. I'm glad I have thick leathery skin! I am sort of in the same boat as the OP. (not to hijack this thread). Although the difference is, I did it to myself. I am going to do a thorough examination of my needs, and start my own thread.

Great Info.

[Sunking]

If you wish to add a forum member to your Ignore User list, go to your User Settings, and under the Account tab, it starts with password, the last item in that list is

Yep stick your head in the sand. What I cannot believe by his own admission he does not want or care to learn anything about his system. Can you believe that someone who lives off-grid does not want to know anything about his system. WTF is he asking questions for? Ignorance you can fix, but stupid cannot be fixed.

[Mike90250]

Jabroni,
if you wish to add a forum member to your Ignore User list, go to your User Settings, and under the Account tab, it starts with password, the last item in that list is :

Ignore List
To block certain users' posts, enter their names into the ignore list.
and SAVE Changes
and you wont see any more posts from that member

[Jabroni]

Ok I will lay off the condescending comments about your unfortunate sales event.

They were never necessary in the first place.

Trouble shooting a problem is not easy when someone does not have the ability to physically see or investigate the system first hand.

Agreed 100%. Which is why I was so thrown off by the initial responses to my thread. They werent questions for more details.

I knew from the jump I wasn't going to be able to give enough info without my hand being held. I was expecting a lot more questions before jumping to quick conclusions tbh.

I am not saying you presented your info wrong but a lot of people come into this forum and ask for help but provide only bits and pieces of the system and what is happening. They then get pissed off when we point out the truth of their actions. It gets hard not to get mad right back at them because they won't listen to reason.

They get pissed off cause Sunking is a dik.

He's got quite the reputation in the solar forum community. He didn't disappoint here.

So if we can get past the flaming outbursts and hurt feelings maybe we can help resolve the issue for your system

Sure. As soon as the moderators respect my request and ask that Sunking find someone else to troll.

That said, I appreciate those that did try to help in this thread. Ive got people coming out to do a site check soon. I got some target areas that they'll be looking into. I'll post the results of the findings once this thing draws to a conclusion.

[SunEagle]

me getting ripped off by my solar company is nothing I didn't already know prior to coming on this forum.

The fact that me getting ripped off is the focal point some of y'all want to drive home is the thing I find odd.

A lot of the comments are hell bent on proving the system is so flawed that it doesnt work. Yet the system has worked, just fine.

Very little focus has been on fixing the problem that occurred after the AGS was installed. That hasnt been the case with the other avenues Ive gone for help and Ive made progress on figuring out the problem.



Wrong to trust a professional to do their jobs?

Are u one of those types who refuses to hire lawyers and only represents himself in court? ?



Go back and read my first post in this thread. What gave you the impression I wasnt fed up with the idiots who installed my system? There's nothing u can say about them that is worse than Ive already said to them. Prior to coming on a forum for assistance.

But again, it's odd that this is the point u want to drive home as if I don't already know what dummies the installers were. If I didnt suspect they were hacks, I'd have already bought new batteries from them.

Which I may add, would not have fixed the issue. The problem would've persisted, not because it's a 24v system. There have been several issues that were discovered in the system (none of which were suggested here) that have already made a huge improvement in performance and getting things back to what I was used to experiencing.

Ok I will lay off the condescending comments about your unfortunate sales event.

I am also glad that you understand just putting in replacement batteries would solve your problem.

Trouble shooting a problem is not easy when someone does not have the ability to physically see or investigate the system first hand.

I am not saying you presented your info wrong but a lot of people come into this forum and ask for help but provide only bits and pieces of the system and what is happening. They then get pissed off when we point out the truth of their actions. It gets hard not to get mad right back at them because they won't listen to reason.

So if we can get past the flaming outbursts and hurt feelings maybe we can help resolve the issue for your system and get it working properly.

[Jabroni]

Jabroni

The problem I see is that you got your feelings hurt because someone told you (while maybe a little gruff) the truth and you got ripped off by a solar sales company for a system that was not designed correctly.

me getting ripped off by my solar company is nothing I didn't already know prior to coming on this forum.

The fact that me getting ripped off is the focal point some of y'all want to drive home is the thing I find odd.

A lot of the comments are hell bent on proving the system is so flawed that it doesnt work. Yet the system has worked, just fine.

Very little focus has been on fixing the problem that occurred after the AGS was installed. That hasnt been the case with the other avenues Ive gone for help and Ive made progress on figuring out the problem.

So your choice is to find a way to fix the system or take your lumps and admit you were wrong to trust that company.

Wrong to trust a professional to do their jobs?

Are u one of those types who refuses to hire lawyers and only represents himself in court? ?

Remember a company will say anything to convince their customer that they sold you a great thing instead of admitting they screwed up.

Go back and read my first post in this thread. What gave you the impression I wasnt fed up with the idiots who installed my system? There's nothing u can say about them that is worse than Ive already said to them. Prior to coming on a forum for assistance.

But again, it's odd that this is the point u want to drive home as if I don't already know what dummies the installers were. If I didnt suspect they were hacks, I'd have already bought new batteries from them.

Which I may add, would not have fixed the issue. The problem would've persisted, not because it's a 24v system. There have been several issues that were discovered in the system (none of which were suggested here) that have already made a huge improvement in performance and getting things back to what I was used to experiencing.

[SunEagle]

Jabroni

The problem I see is that you got your feelings hurt because someone told you (while maybe a little gruff) the truth and you got ripped off by a solar sales company for a system that was not designed correctly.

So your choice is to find a way to fix the system or take your lumps and admit you were wrong to trust that company.

Remember a company will say anything to convince their customer that they sold you a great thing instead of admitting they screwed up.