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California sales of household batteries predicted to grow in 2020

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  • #16
    Originally posted by PugPower View Post
    ........

    I'd bet in a few years when CA kills Net-Metering, batteries will become standard with solar installs. Similar to Hawaii.
    I agree, some people call that the utility death spiral when they cut off their nose to spite their face. As an example of that kind of load departure, my brother installed two Powerwalls in his vacation rentals in Maui. He still has an electric bill but it is significantly less than it was. The limiting factor was the roof area for solar panels.
    Last edited by Ampster; 02-26-2020, 12:29 PM.
    9 kW solar. Driving EVs since 2012

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    • #17
      Originally posted by PugPower View Post
      I have a hard time justifying the purchase of batteries when we have net-metering in CA. The way I see it, the poco acts like my battery and I don't need to spend any additional money. Batteries are still quite expensive and generally last an average of 10 years. It seems to me the only real advantage of having batteries is backup power when the grid goes out, which in my case happened maybe once the past 5 years that I can recall.
      You are fortunate.

      I live on the East Coast [Maine], here in our town the power grid normally goes down 2 or 3 times each month. It might only be for an hour, or it might last 3 or 4 days, there is no way to predict how long a power outage will last.

      The additional fees for pre-approval of grid-tied installations here will equal the cost of batteries.

      Whereas off-grid installations do not require any poco permits.
      4400w, Midnite Classic 150 charge-controller.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by organic farmer View Post

        You are fortunate.

        I live on the East Coast [Maine], here in our town the power grid normally goes down 2 or 3 times each month. It might only be for an hour, or it might last 3 or 4 days, there is no way to predict how long a power outage will last.

        The additional fees for pre-approval of grid-tied installations here will equal the cost of batteries.

        Whereas off-grid installations do not require any poco permits.
        Sounds like the POCO's have your state politicians in their pockets with approval costs for solar being so high. It is a shame since the North East POCO rates are as bad as the West Coast.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

          Sounds like the POCO's have your state politicians in their pockets ... .
          They certainly do.

          4400w, Midnite Classic 150 charge-controller.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Ampster View Post

            I agree, some people call that the utility death spiral when they cut off their nose to spite their face. As an example of that kind of load departure, my brother installed two Powerwalls in his vacation rentals in Maui. He still has an electric bill but it is significantly less than it was. The limiting factor was the roof area for solar panels.
            Perhaps one (of many) possible future scenarios for grid/residential interface would have most electricity needs met by on site battery storage with POCO's charging such mostly "independent" users a fee that's mostly or entirely free of any charges for delivered power but high enough to cover the cost of maintaining an infrastructure and also cover the cost of generating capacity adequate to cover 100% of grid demand.

            Taking that fantasy a step further, if the POCO's also owned the residential storage, charging for it and paying/crediting any on site PV or other generation at the highest cost of alternate sources of generation, they'd have an opportunity to get in on the ground floor of what's likely to happen at some point anyway and control what they might view as competition - a situation they missed out on by not banding together and controlling the PV industry before it took off.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

              Perhaps one (of many) possible future scenarios for grid/residential interface would have most electricity needs met by on site battery storage with POCO's charging such mostly "independent" users a fee that's mostly or entirely free of any charges for delivered power but high enough to cover the cost of maintaining an infrastructure and also cover the cost of generating capacity adequate to cover 100% of grid demand.
              Perhaps that is what SDGE intended to do with their proposed large increase in the fixed fee. To me the big unknown is not just the cost of maintaining the grid but upgrading it so it can deal with the two way flow of power that is happening now with solar and batteries. In another discussion someone pointed out that the power can flow in either direction but the controls and information systems were only designed with flow in one direction. I do think there is an opportunity to make the grid more resilient with better controls and switching. There have been some recent examples of that as a result of the power outages in PGE territory that I am familiar with. That is a topic all of itself that has been discussed on other forums that are more California centric,
              The cost of generating capacity is a complicated subject that has been influenced by California deregulation over the past 20 years or more. the reality is that the three IOUs were supposed to divest themselves of their generating capacity and that has only partially taken place. PGE and SCE still have much of their hydro generating capacity and I believe they may have built some peaker plants right after the energy crisis. I buy my generation through a CCA, which is another aspect of deregulation.
              Taking that fantasy a step further, if the POCO's also owned the residential storage, charging for it and paying/crediting any on site PV or other generation at the highest cost of alternate sources of generation, they'd have an opportunity to get in on the ground floor of what's likely to happen at some point anyway and control what they might view as competition - a situation they missed out on by not banding together and controlling the PV industry before it took off.
              Perhaps, but as I remember the argument that SCE was making during the run up to deregulation they wanted to get rid of generation. I actively lobbied our legislators for deregulation at that time. Solar was not considered as a significant factor. A lot of mistakes were made during the early days of deregulation and we are still paying for them now.
              9 kW solar. Driving EVs since 2012

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              • #22
                On a side note, has anyone heard anything about what's going on with CA net-metering 3.0? Supposedly they were planning on introducing 3.0 early in 2020.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by PugPower View Post
                  On a side note, has anyone heard anything about what's going on with CA net-metering 3.0? Supposedly they were planning on introducing 3.0 early in 2020.
                  I saw a brief discussion on one site that said that is being delayed until later in the year.
                  9 kW solar. Driving EVs since 2012

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