Tesla announces "Powerwall" batteries

[Sunking]

Speaking of load shedding :

Riiiight. Glad people with your lack of foresight aren't running power grids...

Ontario has a big surplus of generation capacity.
Paying for gas plants to keep boilers hot is a waste, both in energy terms, and cost.

Yet, we have programs like "peak saver" that are incentives to shed load at peak:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/yP2pYpOmC6s

It's called "negawatts", it's far cheaper to reduce peak power generation requirements than to build spinning reserve.

You are completely missing the point. Ontario has more than enough generation capacity to meet the needs. Good for Ontario. That has nothing to do with California problems where demands cannot be met as they import 30% of their power. Load shifting is not going to solve any problems, only more generating capacity will fix it.

[SunEagle]

You are completely missing the point. Ontario has more than enough generation capacity to meet the needs. Good for Ontario. That has nothing to do with California problems where demands cannot be met as they import 30% of their power. Load shifting is not going to solve any problems, only more generating capacity will fix it.

They can always "LOAD SHED" and turn off electrical devices when there isn't enough to power them. I will bet we will be seeing that in both CA and Germany in the near future.

[russ]

They can always "LOAD SHED" and turn off electrical devices when there isn't enough to power them. I will bet we will be seeing that in both CA and Germany in the near future.

They don't need all that power in the poorer sections of LA anyway - just cut that off and life goes on.

[Sunking]

They can always "LOAD SHED" and turn off electrical devices when there isn't enough to power them. I will bet we will be seeing that in both CA and Germany in the near future.

That does not solve the capacity problem and imports. As long as neighboring states fill the shortages, life goes on as usual of getting further behind until it hits breaking point with rolling blackouts. Sooner or later the neighboring states are going to run out of excess capacity and cut California off and limit supply. At that point California has no where to go but Dark.

[SunEagle]

That does not solve the capacity problem and imports. As long as neighboring states fill the shortages, life goes on as usual of getting further behind until it hits breaking point with rolling blackouts. Sooner or later the neighboring states are going to run out of excess capacity and cut California off and limit supply. At that point California has no where to go but Dark.

Yep. Florida had rolling blackouts for Christmas back in 1989 or 1990. That was due to our local POCO generators being down and going through maintenance and the power coming from Georgia was cut off due to extreme low temperatures so they needed more themselves.

It was fun trying to cook a turkey when the power went out for 15 minutes every hour for most of the day.

[DanKegel]

That does not solve the capacity problem and imports. As long as neighboring states fill the shortages, life goes on as usual of getting further behind until it hits breaking point with rolling blackouts. Sooner or later the neighboring states are going to run out of excess capacity and cut California off and limit supply. At that point California has no where to go but Dark.

Last time California had rolling blackouts, it was partly because wholesale prices were unregulated, but retail prices remained capped, so utilities didn't have revenue to buy enough power ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Califor...tricity_crisis ).
Wonder if we learned anything from that.

[donald]

None of the blackouts discussed were caused by renewable policy. Especially California's problems caused by the republican heros at Enron.

If batteries really are near the value of gas peakers, then Musk is a smart man.

[russ]

None of the blackouts discussed were caused by renewable policy. Especially California's problems caused by the republican heros at Enron.

If batteries really are near the value of gas peakers, then Musk is a smart man.

You post tripe like this and then accuse me of bullying you? BS - you just chatter of what you have zero idea.

[SunEagle]

None of the blackouts discussed were caused by renewable policy. Especially California's problems caused by the republican heros at Enron.

If batteries really are near the value of gas peakers, then Musk is a smart man.

Ok so none of the past blackouts were caused by RE. So does that mean there won't be any blackouts in the future?

That is like saying since I have live in Florida for almost 30 years and have not gotten a direct hit from a hurricane it will never happen.

The more RE is introduced and relied upon the better chance of some places will eventually lose power. It is just math and gambling.

Musk is gambling that he will make enough money with his battery strategy to get the price down below the cost of existing power generation such as peakers.

[Sunking]

Last time California had rolling blackouts, it was partly because wholesale prices were unregulated, but retail prices remained capped, so utilities didn't have revenue to buy enough power ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Califor...tricity_crisis ).
Wonder if we learned anything from that.

Who mentioned anything about Black outs from 20 years ago? That is a Straw Man Argument. 20 years ago California imported 10% of electric energy. Today 30% and climbing from failed energy policy. Sooner or later AZ, NV, and OR are going to run out of excess capacity and cut you off. Those are just the facts of life you want to ignore and censor.

You Ian and a few others have fallen into a trap you cannot get out of. Musk motivation with his home battery is to tap more tax dollars via SGIP. That is Corporate Welfare ripping off the public. You, Ian and others BOLDY advocate support it. You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

[Sunking]

Musk is gambling that he will make enough money with his battery strategy to get the price down below the cost of existing power generation such as peakers.

Musk is a Smart Man. He knows CA energy policy has failed and is trying to capitalize from it via SGIP and Corporate Welfare. Plain and simple he smells blood. Just like when a Hurricane hits an area. Lots of folks with generators, toilet paper, water, ect.. waiting in a warehouse for the next storm, then scalp the victims who are happy to pay up.

[Sundetective]

Mr. Musk

Mr. Musk may also smell the 'California Medical Plants'.
At up to 1000 Watts per Grow Light or more
the electric meters (or home RE) is smokin.
Old Bill is not jokin

The value per Light in the right hands is Legendary and many of them get
3 or more chances (crops) to win every year.

Now many people feel that between 2016 - 2018
every Tom, Dick, Jack and Jill
of age in the State is going to get the nod
from the State Government that they too ... can Legally get their piece now.

Then watch those electric meters smoke.

Some people are giving themselves 'good position' for this feast as we speaks.
The devils.

Bill Blake

Musk is a Smart Man. He knows CA energy policy has failed and is trying to capitalize from it. Plain and simple he smells blood. Just like when a Hurricane hits an area. Lots of folks with generators, toilet paper, water, ect.. waiting in a warehouse for the next storm, then scalp the victims who are happy to pay up.

[Sunking]

Mr. Musk may also smell the 'California Medical Plants'.
At up to 1000 Watts per Grow Light or more
the electric meters (or home RE) is smokin.
Old Bill is not jokin

The value per Light in the right hands is Legendary and many of them get
3 or more chances (crops) to win every year.

Now many people feel that between 2016 - 2018
every Tom, Dick, Jack and Jill
of age in the State is going to get the nod
from the State Government that they too ... can Legally get their piece now.

Then watch those electric meters smoke.

Some people are giving themselves 'good position' for this feast as we speaks.
The devils.

Bill Blake

Yeah well me thinks come the beginning of 2017 the Ganja Party is over. The IRS is going to come in and lower the Tax Boom on the dealers. None of them have a Federal Tax Stamp for manufacture and distributing Ganja and have not paid one penny of Federal Taxes on all that Ganja. Same as booze, you gotta have a Federal Tax Stamp and pay Federal Taxes on every drop you produce and sell. Ask any Moon Shiner

[Ian S]

Sooner or later AZ, NV, and OR are going to run out of excess capacity and cut you off.

I've told you before but I guess you need continual reminders: Arizona doesn't own any power plants so they can't cut anyone off. The Palo Verde nuclear plant is co-owned by a number of utilities including several from California. So no one is in a position to cut anyone off.

[SunEagle]

I've told you before but I guess you need continual reminders: Arizona doesn't own any power plants so they can't cut anyone off. The Palo Verde nuclear plant is co-owned by a number of utilities including several from California. So no one is in a position to cut anyone off.

Do you mean the State of Arizona doesn't own power plants? That is more than likely true but that doesn't mean a privately owned power plant can't cut power to secondary "customers" out of state.

If a situation happens (I can think of at least 6) a power plant can and will shed low priority customers to keep the lights on for high priority ones. Georgia did it to Florida even with contracts in place stating they had to sell us power. They just ran low and turned ours off.