Tesla announces "Powerwall" batteries

[Ian S]

Abuse is in the eye of the beholder, to some extent. A single post saying "You wouldn't know science if it bit you in the ass" was enough to get a rebuke from a moderator, but calling somebody "poor baby" or "crybaby" might not be. Ridicule isn't against the TOS, but a continued pattern of it might still be abusive.



Ah, fond memories of junior high school

You forgot "intentionally designed to mislead, disparage or embarrass others," which is also part of the rules. Terms like moron, fool, idiot, coomie, loon, etc. get thrown around here - without moderation - all the time by certain people. Other comments are deleted simply because they don't toe the official line. The rules need to be followed or changed IMHO. Glad to see Mike agrees.

[donald]

IMO leasing "anything" usually ends up costing more in the long run.

It's hard to figure getting $2000 more utility out of the battery in years 10 and later. The computer in the Powerwall will then be ten years old. A new 7kwh replacement system may be less than $2K in 10 years.
So I'm not sure the lease is real. If it is, Tesla may be carrying the lease and offered it as a form of discounting. Or perhaps there is a charge for lease termination.

[SunEagle]

It's hard to figure getting $2000 more utility out of the battery in years 10 and later. The computer in the Powerwall will then be ten years old. A new 7kwh replacement system may be less than $2K in 10 years.
So I'm not sure the lease is real. If it is, Tesla may be carrying the lease and offered it as a form of discounting. Or perhaps there is a charge for lease termination.

More than likely both the software and hardware will change (hopefully improve) over 10 years and depending on what those improvements are people may want to upgrade. A lease contract may make that hard to do. It all depends on how Tesla writes up the contract. They don't want to piss off new customers so maybe they will be happy to allow existing customers to upgrade for a minimal charge.

[russ]

More than likely both the software and hardware will change (hopefully improve) over 10 years and depending on what those improvements are people may want to upgrade. A lease contract may make that hard to do. It all depends on how Tesla writes up the contract. They don't want to piss off new customers so maybe they will be happy to allow existing customers to upgrade for a minimal charge.

Remember the early solar contracts from Solar City and others? They were real screw jobs that improved rapidly when people started noticing.

The early adopters didn't care because they thought it was "green" however the other 99% forced the change by waiting.

[donald]

I assume these boxes will be online to Tesla from day one. Same as with the car. They are likely using exactly the same software security as they do with the car. I expect we will see software cleverness from Tesla later this year. That's what I would do in their position. Announce the hardware. Then near shipment show some "gee whiz" software features.

[DanKegel]

So not quite there yet but what happens when demand rates are all the rage and net metering goes away?

yeah.

For comparison, anybody have links to existing success stories with residential peak shaving paying off in reduced demand charges, say, with old demand reduction systems or old battery types?

[russ]

yeah.

For comparison, anybody have links to existing success stories with residential peak shaving paying off in reduced demand charges, say, with old demand reduction systems or old battery types?

If so then provide proof as it hasn't happened that has ever been mentioned here.

If it worked the power companies would be doing it.

[DanKegel]

If so then provide proof as it hasn't happened that has ever been mentioned here.

Well, SunEagle in

http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?20347-My-dusty-crystal-ball-and-the-future-economics-of-home-solar&p=145677&viewfull=1#post145677

said

Energy measurement and demand control is relatively easy to do and has ROI of 2 years or less depending on your loads and usage.

and http://www.mid.org/yourhome/programs/step.html is an example that gives consumers a whole $20/year
discount. Was hoping for a few more examples.

[russ]

Well, SunEagle in

http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?20347-My-dusty-crystal-ball-and-the-future-economics-of-home-solar&p=145677&viewfull=1#post145677

said
and http://www.mid.org/yourhome/programs/step.html is an example that gives consumers a whole $20/year
discount. Was hoping for a few more examples.

You were talking about batteries - this is a new topic that has nothing to do with the topic.

[Sunking]

It's hard to figure getting $2000 more utility out of the battery in years 10 and later. The computer in the Powerwall will then be ten years old. A new 7kwh replacement system may be less than $2K in 10 years.
So I'm not sure the lease is real. If it is, Tesla may be carrying the lease and offered it as a form of discounting. Or perhaps there is a charge for lease termination.

You cannot get the battery for less $7K plus the ancillary equipment to make it work on top of that. The battery was conceived for Musk to tap more of your tax dollars like the car. It is Corporate Welfare. Why is that so hard to get through your lump of meat between your ears?

[Gilles]

New way of thinking

Well, SunEagle in

http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?20347-My-dusty-crystal-ball-and-the-future-economics-of-home-solar&p=145677&viewfull=1#post145677

said
and http://www.mid.org/yourhome/programs/step.html is an example that gives consumers a whole $20/year
discount. Was hoping for a few more examples.

The way I see it is that we need to look at ways of re thinking using the grid.
I have net metering at my house and it not a big system but it works during the sunny days I will top up my batteries and sell power back to the grid with a bi directional meter .
My bill on the month to month changes and do get a better rate than home without a system .I have to say the saving start rite away and have back up power if we have a black out.

Gilles

[Sunking]

The way I see it is that we need to look at ways of re thinking using the grid.
I have net metering at my house and it not a big system but it works during the sunny days I will top up my batteries and sell power back to the grid with a bi directional meter .
My bill on the month to month changes and do get a better rate than home without a system .I have to say the saving start rite away and have back up power if we have a black out.

Gilles

So Giles you do understand any power coming from batteries is many times more expensive than what the POCO charges you right? You do understand business principles right?

Essentially it cost you 50-cent to $1 to make a Kwh, to sell to the POCO for 12 cents. Do you like giving away money? If so include me in please.

[donald]

You cannot get the battery for less $7K plus the ancillary equipment to make it work on top of that. The battery was conceived for Musk to tap more of your tax dollars like the car. It is Corporate Welfare. Why is that so hard to get through your lump of meat between your ears?

The 5K lease number was reported by Bloomberg, the same place the 7K purchase number came from:

"For a 10 kilowatt-hour system, customers can prepay $5,000 for a nine-year lease, which includes installation, a maintenance agreement, the electrical inverter and control systems. Customers can also buy the same system outright for $7,140, Bass said."

[Sunking]

The 5K lease number was reported by Bloomberg, the same place the 7K purchase number came from:

"For a 10 kilowatt-hour system, customers can prepay $5,000 for a nine-year lease, which includes installation, a maintenance agreement, the electrical inverter and control systems. Customers can also buy the same system outright for $7,140, Bass said."

Now add on the ancillary equipment to make it work.

[DanKegel]

You were talking about batteries - this is a new topic that has nothing to do with the topic.

Sorry if that was confusing. I often type near-nonsense.

Peak shaving is peak shaving. Just like generation, one should do it with cheap methods (load management) before expensive methods (batteries). So success stories showing how to combine the two methods would be interesting.