My New Favorite Battery.

[Willy T]

I found out that just about everything requires some type of maintenance or consumer intervention over it's lifetime.

Except for a brick. As long it is just a brick then there is nothing to maintain or worry about. Once it gets used to build a wall or a roadway then you have to maintain it.

Thats what you have a warranty for and a Professional Installer. I have my doubts that 1% of the people that can tell you what the Plus and Minus stands for with DC current.

[bberry]

I think most off grid people with disposable incomes would gladly pay for "battery as a service". I give you $2K per year. You make sure I always have 20 kwh of storage available.

Ideally that would be provided with a BMS that could take part of a faulty portion of the bank out of service while maintaining power. Tesla's design should be able to perform that function when multiple units are installed. Their commercial scale product probably requires fault tolerance.

[Sunking]

Two caveats on the RE line: 1) Keeping them cool, and 2) Proper maintenance. If either is lacking, these will get no where near rated life. But these aren't too pricey either for a more premium battery.

Same can be said for any battery. If you are not willing to take care of your batteries, you have no business having them to begin with.

[SunEagle]

Thats what you have a warranty for and a Professional Installer. I have my doubts that 1% of the people that can tell you what the Plus and Minus stands for with DC current.

Except that warranties are usually only good for the manufacturer and Prof installers come and go. Even insurance policies have specific requirements to be met to get any money back.

As for the plus and minus of DC --- I know if you connect them together they let out a lot of sparks and fire.

[Willy T]

Except that warranties are usually only good for the manufacturer and Prof installers come and go. Even insurance policies have specific requirements to be met to get any money back.

As for the plus and minus of DC --- I know if you connect them together they let out a lot of sparks and fire.

Since they are going to have a internet connection, one would have to assume they will have monitoring software that will send a alert to someone. Enphase sends me a e-mail when there is a issue. Like cars, I use to do all the maintenance , but now all I do is put gas in it , the dealer does all the rest.

There will be problems, you can expect that, they will work them out or it will fail. I am really not a supporter, so it makes little difference to me what it does. I am happy with my hybrid using grid support.

Another assumption is that " Daily Cycling, 10 KW " means off grid. They may have another concept in mind than whats been expressed. It could have to be grid tied with a hybrid mode.

As far as Musk goes, I heard 30 years ago to stick a fork in Donald Trump he was done. He's still around and is worth 100's of times than what he was then.

[Sunking]

Tesla updated their press page with inverter news. Both Fronius and SolarEdge are working with them with a hybrid inverter.

Still a CA insanity market thing to load shift. Does not help the Off-Grid grid crowd as it takes 240 VAC to operate the internal charger on a 400 volt battery. No means to charge directly from panels yet.

It still means it is an Exclusive product. No one can just buy the battery from Tesla. It comes as a line Item on you solar contractor bill Solar City which Musk owns a large portion and on the board of directors. Whatcha you wanna bet the compatible Inverters from Fronius and SolarEdge are only available from Solar City as the sole distributor. Sound like another Sun Power deal to me. That is what I would do.

[Amy@altE]

He doesn't want the off-grid crowd.

[Sunking]

He doesn't want the off-grid crowd.

Maybe for now but it does not make any sense. I take that back. There is no tax payer money in that market.

[bberry]

He doesn't want the off-grid crowd.

Solarcity said they would do Powerwall offgrid in Hawaii in 2016.

[russ]

Solarcity said they would do Powerwall offgrid in Hawaii in 2016.

They say a lot of things - maybe even a few are true - though not many for sure!

[alterego]

We've got them available. http://www.solarreviews.com/solar-di...rs/alte-store/

A few examples of price:
6 volt @ 465 AH IND9-6V $834
6V 695Ah IND13-6V $1138
4 volt 1618Ah IND29-4V $1500

Help with sizing? Looking at 18 285 watt solar panels to a 48 v charge controller. Likely two hooked to one battery. I have been monitoring closely and we have been running at 13.7 max to 6.9 kwh use per day for a few months. In the winter we will run the blower on the wood furnace. It seems to eat 300 watts per hour on the high side. I have left it run at night to measure through the smart meter. So another 3 kwh on top of our usage. Gets me to 15 16 per day.

285 x 18 x 4.2 average daily for our area is 21.54 kwh
285 x 18 x 2.2 low December is 11.28 kwh

Obviously some generator time every so often in November December January

So if I am looking for this battery at 30 percent dod. With 6 volts x 8 batteries for a 48 volt bank.
What will 8 six volt 465 ah batteries in a 48 volt configuration translate into kwh of usable power at 30 percent dod.

[Sunking]

Help with sizing? Looking at 18 285 watt solar panels to a 48 v charge controller. .

Figure it out yourself.

Off Grid Design


Give you your first hint.

Amps = Panel Wattage / Battery Voltage

Now go learn to fish and feed yourself.

[paulcheung]

Two caveats on the RE line: 1) Keeping them cool, and 2) Proper maintenance. If either is lacking, these will get no where near rated life. But these aren't too pricey either for a more premium battery.
Trojan's watering system is interesting too. I like how they seem to be focused on real user needs.

Well you know the major problem with FLA batteries on PV RE application is the sulfation. It cause all the heat and maintenance. To prevent the sulfation on FLA battery you have to charge the battery back to 100% SOC most of the time if not all the time. In order to do that on PV RE application you have to charge the batteries with the highest charge rate allowed and with higher absorb voltage which cause all the heat to charge the final 15% SOC.

With Trojan Smart Carbon Technology, that problem is solved. you can set up your system to operate on 50 to 80% SOC to avoid the hard last 15% absorb charge and only fully charge now and then so the battery will run much cooler and much less gassing. just make sure the charge rate will stir up the electrolyte to avoid stratification.

When that is setup properly with auto-generator start and automatic water refill system, the off grid FLA battery system is almost maintenance free, just check the reserve water and generator fuel once per month.

[Sunking]

Well you know the major problem with FLA batteries on PV RE application is the sulfation. It cause all the heat and maintenance. To prevent the sulfation on FLA battery you have to charge the battery back to 100% SOC most of the time if not all the time. In order to do that on PV RE application you have to charge the batteries with the highest charge rate allowed and with higher absorb voltage which cause all the heat to charge the final 15% SOC.

With Trojan Smart Carbon Technology, that problem is solved. you can set up your system to operate on 50 to 80% SOC to avoid the hard last 15% absorb charge and only fully charge now and then so the battery will run much cooler and much less gassing. just make sure the charge rate will stir up the electrolyte to avoid stratification.

When that is setup properly with auto-generator start and automatic water refill system, the off grid FLA battery system is almost maintenance free, just check the reserve water and generator fuel once per month.

+1 Paul, you understand. Only correction I can add is the battery can be safely operated in 20 to 100% range safely pretty much like Lithium usable range or 80% capacity. That does not imply you design to operate in that range, but it does mean you can safely down size from 5 day autonomy to 4 days which gives you 2-3 days of usable capacity before firing up the generator.

To bad the knuckleheads don't get it.

[DanKegel]

Well you know the major problem with FLA batteries on PV RE application is the sulfation...
With Trojan Smart Carbon Technology, that problem is solved...

+1. Speaking as a non-battery-expert, it's cool to see lead-acid battery technology still making progress. Never let anyone tell you old dogs can't learn new tricks.

When that is setup properly with auto-generator start and automatic water refill system, the off grid FLA battery system is almost maintenance free, just check the reserve water and generator fuel once per month.

Minor quibble: That's a long way from maintenance-free. These days, consumers expect Things To Just Work. Remember when you had to check fluid levels in your car at every fill-up? It's still a good idea, but nobody does it anymore because Things Just Work. Nobody reads manuals anymore, either. (And don't get me started about renters