What kind of environment? You are in Hawaii right? Telemetry?
What is throwing me off is these batteries are very good, but application specific. They are made for emergency stand-by power. Examples are; exit row lighting in aircraft, emergency back-up for medical equipment, egress lighting in buildings. They are fantastic batteries for Float Operation because they will last for a good ten years. They can be cycled, but they are custom made for high current emergency power using Float charging. Cycle service is going to be between 200 to 1000 cycles.
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I'll napkin calc it for a conventional agm. The pure-lead types have even lower internal resistance, so times may be cut even a bit shorter. I think you'll make it based upon a 25% discharge...
25ah rated * .25 = 6.25ah drawn daily
Conventional agm quick-calc is 6.25 / 2.77a solar * 1.78 absorb compensation to reach float = 4.01 hours. But the cyclons want to do more than just reach float. Let's compensate by making the float voltage equal to the absorb to get just a little bit of compensation in before sunset in the winter. In the summer, maybe instead of making absorb and float equal, drop the float to a high value, perhaps 14.4v.
If you see a rise to 14.9 volts on a controller set for 14.6, then you might be seeing edge-of-cloud effects.
If it were me, I'd go with something like the Schneider/Xantrex C12, with remote temperature sensor. This unit allows you to dial in exactly what you want, rather than use pre-programmed dip switches. It is very important to actually reach 14.7v, not 14.6. There is only a 1 hour limit on absorb, so if that is not enough even the more reason to set float the same as absorb, or perhaps a little less in super-hot environments. Disable the EQ function.
If you are not dealing with the monoblocs, and have the luxury of using individual cells, and if you can physically do so, don't just parallel series strings together. Far better for balance is to group the cells to get the capacity you need, and then series string these groups together to get the voltage.
If it were me, I'd splurge and make it at least a 60 watt panel. It may not seem like much, but the mantra with pure-lead is to finish a normal absorb at the very least, and get as much float as you can, or compensate with extended absorb.
Those are my thoughts anyway. Real world may be different.
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Wow,,, thanks for the informative and encouraging post.YES!
Outstanding choice for your application.
To make sure you have the latest application manual from Enersys/Hawker, check this out:
The emphasis here is that you do not want to baby these batteries. If you are going to err, it is best to err on the side of overcharge than undercharge.
Quickly - each cell NEEDS to see 2.45v per cell (temp-compensated of course) *at the battery terminals* under the usual CV charging regime, at least for a little while, no matter how much current you throw at them - which is practically unlimited under CV charging. This means you should take into account any voltage drop from your link between the charge controller and the batteries. (14.7v for a nominal 12v application)
Inside a tube, you may want to incorparate remote temperature compensation, rather than ambient....
Just because you can quick-charge these batteries does not mean you are REALLY done unless you have some hours of float behind it. Yes, that's hard to do with solar, so BE SURE to set both your float voltage to the same value as your absorb voltage (2.45 per cell) to help compensate with an extended absorb. It will be your decision how far you should do an extended absorb if you always finish a "normal" absorb early on in your solar-insolation period. Here we are talking about daily cycling. If nothing else, make SURE you actually finish a normal absorb. The application manual actually defines what is and is not a standby vs cyclic application.
If your application falls into the standby category as defined by Enersys, then you may be able to just float them at a *minimum* of 2.25v per cell, not to exceed 2.3v - again as measured at the battery terminals. 2.2v doesn't cut it. At least not if you want to stay within warrantee.
You can hit these things hard, but it does NOT mean that the references you may see to needing 0.4C minimum current apply. Many confuse this with some sort of initial chemical need, but it is truly from a TIME standpoint to ensure that you get to the all important float quick enough during a fast-turnaround situation like it used to be when EV's were driven with larger pure-lead Odyssey batteries. The 0.4C reference was from the hurry-up-and-wait mindset, rather than have you continually undercharge them by merely stopping charge when float was reached.
This is a great feature really - if the budget and space allows, don't dink around with charging. The objective is to get through a normal absorb each and every time. Extended absorb is a great trick if you can't get at least a few hours of float in.
Hint - if you look at the application manuals for Odyssey, even as far back as some 1998 versions, you'll see nearly the same material in the application manual for the Odyssey as you see for the Cyclon today. Way back then, these two were competitors, although separated between large and small capacity clients.
Practical notes - be sure you obtain these from a reputable dealer, preferably the same age or close to it. What you don't want is some sloppy shipping guy grabbing a randomly aged selection from a bin somewhere, especially because you are dealing with individual cells, and not the monoblocs.
First charge - even though you are eventually ending up with solar, be sure to charge these as noted above, and to help balance them, give them a LONG float at first - were talking 24 hours or more before placing them into normal service. You won't get full capacity until you've cycled them at least 5 times. But man, do NOT skip that long initial float.
Caution: These are basically the same pure-lead "tppl" batteries as an Odyssey. If you like, you can cross reference what you read in the Cyclon manual with the Odyssey manual:
You have been warned as the little Cyclon may serve as a gateway-battery to the world of pure-lead! Which of course leads to the harder stuff, like LiFePo4.
Thanks.
What's your guesstimate for battery life with the usage detailed below?
Per 6x Cyclon Bank (12v 25ah 300wh):
66wh (22%) per day discharge.
Minimum 3.5 sun hour (winter) ... occasional cloudy day.
50watt panel.
5amp PWM CC
14.6v rapid charge (although I've measured 14.9v at the terminals on other installations).
13.6v floatLeave a comment:
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No there is no way you will get 15 or even 10 years out of them. They are guaranteed 10 years for FLOAT Service. Cycle service about 200 on the low side, 1000 cycles on the high side if shallow cycled. These batteries are made for very high current applications for emergency equipment. You should get 3 to 5 years depending on how deep you discharge them and how often.Leave a comment:
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YES!
Outstanding choice for your application.
To make sure you have the latest application manual from Enersys/Hawker, check this out:
The emphasis here is that you do not want to baby these batteries. If you are going to err, it is best to err on the side of overcharge than undercharge.
Quickly - each cell NEEDS to see 2.45v per cell (temp-compensated of course) *at the battery terminals* under the usual CV charging regime, at least for a little while, no matter how much current you throw at them - which is practically unlimited under CV charging. This means you should take into account any voltage drop from your link between the charge controller and the batteries. (14.7v for a nominal 12v application)
Inside a tube, you may want to incorparate remote temperature compensation, rather than ambient....
Just because you can quick-charge these batteries does not mean you are REALLY done unless you have some hours of float behind it. Yes, that's hard to do with solar, so BE SURE to set both your float voltage to the same value as your absorb voltage (2.45 per cell) to help compensate with an extended absorb. It will be your decision how far you should do an extended absorb if you always finish a "normal" absorb early on in your solar-insolation period. Here we are talking about daily cycling. If nothing else, make SURE you actually finish a normal absorb. The application manual actually defines what is and is not a standby vs cyclic application.
If your application falls into the standby category as defined by Enersys, then you may be able to just float them at a *minimum* of 2.25v per cell, not to exceed 2.3v - again as measured at the battery terminals. 2.2v doesn't cut it. At least not if you want to stay within warrantee.
You can hit these things hard, but it does NOT mean that the references you may see to needing 0.4C minimum current apply. Many confuse this with some sort of initial chemical need, but it is truly from a TIME standpoint to ensure that you get to the all important float quick enough during a fast-turnaround situation like it used to be when EV's were driven with larger pure-lead Odyssey batteries. The 0.4C reference was from the hurry-up-and-wait mindset, rather than have you continually undercharge them by merely stopping charge when float was reached.
This is a great feature really - if the budget and space allows, don't dink around with charging. The objective is to get through a normal absorb each and every time. Extended absorb is a great trick if you can't get at least a few hours of float in.
Hint - if you look at the application manuals for Odyssey, even as far back as some 1998 versions, you'll see nearly the same material in the application manual for the Odyssey as you see for the Cyclon today. Way back then, these two were competitors, although separated between large and small capacity clients.
Practical notes - be sure you obtain these from a reputable dealer, preferably the same age or close to it. What you don't want is some sloppy shipping guy grabbing a randomly aged selection from a bin somewhere, especially because you are dealing with individual cells, and not the monoblocs.
First charge - even though you are eventually ending up with solar, be sure to charge these as noted above, and to help balance them, give them a LONG float at first - were talking 24 hours or more before placing them into normal service. You won't get full capacity until you've cycled them at least 5 times. But man, do NOT skip that long initial float.
Caution: These are basically the same pure-lead "tppl" batteries as an Odyssey. If you like, you can cross reference what you read in the Cyclon manual with the Odyssey manual:
You have been warned as the little Cyclon may serve as a gateway-battery to the world of pure-lead! Which of course leads to the harder stuff, like LiFePo4.
Leave a comment:
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Enersys Cyclon Feedback
enrsys cyclon.jpg
Anybody got experience with these? I recall seeing conversation about them here recently.
I have a project where I'd like to stack (6) of the 2volt 25ah BC cells into a tube... creating a 12volt 25ah.
Would cost me about $300 for 12v 25AH, but I hear they have a 15 year life expectancy? ... would that be so with a 20% DOD?
Could they be charged via PV charge controller as any other SLA/AGM?
and anybody know what the Peukert "number" is for these?
Thank in advance for any feedback...
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