Aquion Energy up and coming battery....opinions please

[inetdog]

One would hope so. The current out versus current in ratio is called the Coulombic efficiency (after the unit of charge, the Coulomb).
But often the sales literature or even the specifications do not make it clear which efficiency is being quoted.

For batteries with high internal resistance (higher in FLA than in AGM, for example) the difference between charging voltage and discharge voltage for the same current is significant.
Mike can tell you about the voltage difference for his NiFe batteries, for example.

[Living Large]

One would hope so. The current out versus current in ratio is called the Coulombic efficiency (after the unit of charge, the Coulomb).
But often the sales literature or even the specifications do not make it clear which efficiency is being quoted.

For batteries with high internal resistance (higher in FLA than in AGM, for example) the difference between charging voltage and discharge voltage for the same current is significant.
Mike can tell you about the voltage difference for his NiFe batteries, for example.

I believe the equivalent to what Dereck stated above in regards to my focus on Ah, and not Wh - I was ignoring inefficiencies with high Ri. According to Dereck's estimate, and my calculations, the Aquion battery has about 6 times the Ri of the Rolls FLA battery he cited. I don't believe I have seen Ri specified by Aquion in any of its literature.

On another board, there is a participant who has been testing Aquion stacks for them, and I believe he mentioned that Aquion sent him a later version that was performing better in some regard. I may be wrong, but I believe he stated the newer stack has a lower Ri. I'll try to find that post.

[northerner]

One would hope so. The current out versus current in ratio is called the Coulombic efficiency (after the unit of charge, the Coulomb).
But often the sales literature or even the specifications do not make it clear which efficiency is being quoted.

I see other sites mentioning that the AHI battery has a round trip energy efficiency of 85%. Would really be great to get some feedback from actual users?

[nat1971a]

http://gigaom.com/2014/07/20/behind-the-scenes-of-aquion-energys-battery-factory-the-future-of-solar-storage/

Interesting read about use in offgrid solar

[Sunking]

http://gigaom.com/2014/07/20/behind-...solar-storage/

Interesting read about use in offgrid solar

That story is full of holes if you know about batteries.

To start by claiming Lead Acid are low density which is true of about 40 to 50 wh/Kg. So what? Aquion batteries are much lower density of 20 to 30 wh/Kg. Not something they want to brag about and is a big negative.

Next they claim their price per Kwh of $500 which is the same oas Lead Acid is a huge lie. A top of the line Rolls 5000 series battery has greater cycle life at 220 per Kwh. Again something they do not want to brag about, so they lied. LFP can outperform Aquion in every technical category at $300 to $360 per Kwh.

If you know the facts, Aquion has nothing to offer.

[OffGridHawaiian]

Has anyone heard how these badboys do just sitting ?

Since people are saying these AHI wonders of the Western World
might hang around for decades when being 'babied' and
Sunking says they Likes being charged cool and slow -
who knows.

If the electrolyte also holds up near forever
and they don't suck replacement electrolyte water like some fool -
these units might make good 'Slave Banks' to eliminate generators
(for the most part) someday.

We are still dollars per gallon away from that conversation
and 'The Theory of Batterytivity'.

Bill Blake

Aloha Bill,

We are using a bank 24 S10's and so far we haven't had to use any generator (lucky for us since we do have a EU7000Si but Auto-start will not be available till this spring according to the tech at Honda) We do live in Hawaii so I guess that helps.

Here's how they're doing.

Conext22615Batt.jpgConext22615load.jpgConext22615PVAC.jpg

[donald]

Aloha Bill,

.......lucky for us since we do have a EU7000Si but Auto-start will not be available till this spring .................

I'm curious how are you managing fuel on a generator you don't use? I manage my fuel by putting it in the car every six months or so. But you probably have a fairly large amount stored? When I buy generator gas I do purchase the best available, and treat it with sta-bil.

[Sundetective]

Aloha Bill,

We are using a bank 24 S10's and so far we haven't had to use any generator (lucky for us since we do have a EU7000Si but Auto-start will not be available till this spring according to the tech at Honda) We do live in Hawaii so I guess that helps.

Here's how they're doing.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]5922[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]5923[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]5924[/ATTACH]

Aloha OffGridHawaiian,

People Likes new and exciting !
I codenamed you TopCat to shorten things up when I tell someone the story
Your the top battery experiment anywhere right now.
The Firefox of batteries.

From what old Bill has heard so far 12 packs of the S20 Stacks are called a
M100-L082 Module.

48 Volts X 612 Amp Hours.

Read someplace that the S10 (12 packs) .. (Yours) .. are

48 Volts X 540 Amp Hours for each Module

(if that's true).

It would be nice to rent a room there, get out of the cold,
Lay-up, watch your solar panels work and taste the Local goodie

Until you feel Likes playing: Answer Me This
again.

Thanks and adieu,

Bill Blake

[Living Large]

Aloha Bill,

We are using a bank 24 S10's and so far we haven't had to use any generator (lucky for us since we do have a EU7000Si but Auto-start will not be available till this spring according to the tech at Honda) We do live in Hawaii so I guess that helps.

It certainly does. There is no way I could not use a generator in the lower Adirondacks. I suppose if I had $90,000 to put towards just power I might approach that goal with an AHI system, for a much smaller daily use than yours. Besides cost, the other drawback for me was lengthy estimated generator run time every other day in cloudy weather. Glad to hear it is working out for you.

[OffGridHawaiian]

I'm curious how are you managing fuel on a generator you don't use? I manage my fuel by putting it in the car every six months or so. But you probably have a fairly large amount stored? When I buy generator gas I do purchase the best available, and treat it with sta-bil.

Using Propane kit from Central Maine Diesel.

[OffGridHawaiian]

More info today from Conext Battery Monitor


DC Source ID House Battery Bank 1
Battery Voltage 47.5 V
Battery Current -35.5 A
Battery Temperature 20.0 ºC
Battery State of Charge 66 %
Battery Midpoint 1 Voltage 48.1 V
Battery Midpoint 2 Voltage 47.6 V
Battery Capacity Remaining 666 Ah
Battery Capacity Removed 334 Ah
Battery BTS Present No
Battery Time To Discharge 00h00m Min
Battery Average Discharge -354 Ah
Battery Average Discharge Percent -35.5 %
Battery Deepest Discharge -496 Ah
Battery Deepest Discharge Percent -49.8 %
Battery Capacity Removed 7893 Ah
Battery Capacity Returned 7593 Ah
Battery Number of Charge Cycles 7
Battery Number of Synchronizations 14
Battery Number of Discharges 0

[SunEagle]

Using Propane kit from Central Maine Diesel.

Good idea. A generator with multiple fuel options adds to the reliability of having a solid backup when the sun don't shine.

[SunEagle]

More info today from Conext Battery Monitor


DC Source ID House Battery Bank 1
Battery Voltage 47.5 V
Battery Current -35.5 A
Battery Temperature 20.0 ºC
Battery State of Charge 66 %
Battery Midpoint 1 Voltage 48.1 V
Battery Midpoint 2 Voltage 47.6 V
Battery Capacity Remaining 666 Ah
Battery Capacity Removed 334 Ah
Battery BTS Present No
Battery Time To Discharge 00h00m Min
Battery Average Discharge -354 Ah
Battery Average Discharge Percent -35.5 %
Battery Deepest Discharge -496 Ah
Battery Deepest Discharge Percent -49.8 %
Battery Capacity Removed 7893 Ah
Battery Capacity Returned 7593 Ah
Battery Number of Charge Cycles 7
Battery Number of Synchronizations 14
Battery Number of Discharges 0

Not bad. Looks like your system is sized pretty good with an average 35.5% DOD.

I wonder if there is a countdown showing the "expected" lifetime cycles remaining. Sort of like a car having an estimated % of oil life before it needs to be changed.

[Sunking]

Not bad. Looks like your system is sized pretty good with an average 35.5% DOD..

Yeah but look at the mid point voltage being below 48 volts.

[SunEagle]

Yeah but look at the mid point voltage being below 48 volts.

That 47.6v was at Midpoint #2 whatever that means. Still too new a technology for me to understand yet.