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  • Originally posted by Carv View Post
    Perfect Mike, that's exactly what I was looking for!

    Since this is only being used as a switch and amp rating does not matter, is 50A better than a 20A for durability?

    Thanks
    Good question, I don't know the answer. As far as durability, like how many times you can flip the switch, I doubt it would matter. As to possible arc damage to the switch with DC power they ARE DC rated so this has been engineered into the breakers that are DC rated. I would use the proper sized breakers and have the safety aspect working for you as well. Whatever the charge controller's rating is , use the proper sized wire on the output side along with the same rating on the breaker. Use the fuse rating on the back of your panels per each string. I don't recall if you are using two strings, if so double that rating.
    2.2kw Suntech mono, Classic 200, NEW Trace SW4024

    Comment


    • Originally posted by littleharbor View Post
      Midnite solar breakers are inexpensive. https://www.solar-electric.com/mnepv.html They are dedicated DC breakers. DIN rail mount. Not made in China.
      Square D QOU breakers. Rated for up to 48 volt DC, http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-SQUARE-D-Q...kAAOSwWBJXA99j
      Square D load center http://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-...0SCP/100157760 Not too expensive. You need to do some fabrication to use DIN rail mount breakers
      Why? They are not needed. If it is a Switch you want the Anderson connectors do that for you as they are HOT PLUGGABLE with a total cost of $10 to $15. MC4 are NOT HOT PLUGGABLE and would require a switch or some means like a breaker.

      However Breakers are not meant to be used as Switches, and if you use them as Switches will weaken them, and you will get false and nuisance trips. That could be a desasterr on a parked EV for a few months to find your batteries dead from a false trip.

      Just trying to give you the best functional setup and the most bang for your buck.
      MSEE, PE

      Comment


      • I pull my batteries when parked, so I don't have to worry about false trips.


        If I'm running a 30A epever mppt, should I run a 30, 35, or 40A breaker to the batteries?

        Also on the PV feed to the charge controller should I use a 10, 15, or 20A?



        I'm running 2 of the 260W panels in series, here's my panel specs Yingli YGE -60 Cell Specs.jpg





        Thanks
        Last edited by Carv; 07-18-2017, 11:28 PM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Carv View Post
          If I'm running a 30A epever mppt, should I run a 30, 35, or 40A breaker to the batteries?
          Anything larger than 35 amps with the Fuse connected directly on the Battery Term Post. Minimum Wire size is determined by the OCPD used. Example if you use a 40 amp fuse, use the charts from minimum wire size and voltage drop. If it were me I would use a 40 amp fuse with 6 AWG or larger wire.

          Originally posted by Carv View Post
          Also on the PV feed to the charge controller should I use a 10, 15, or 20A?
          None of the above. What fuse? There is NO need or requirement for a OCPD between the Panels and Controller. You need to understand that, There is no need to put anything in between the panels and controller other than say an Anderson or MC4 connectors.

          So I ask you again, Why are you putting a junction box with fuses or breakers between the panels and controller? . All you are doing is putting more eggs in basket and throwing away money. All you need is $10 worth of connectors. Unless you have 3 or more strings of panels, no OCPD is required or needed. All you have is 1 string. It is impossible for a solar panel to burn wiring up unless there are 3 or more parallel strings, they are current sources. You can short out your panels all day long facing directly into the sun and they cannot generate more than 10 amps of current. The panel Isc is 9 amps. 9 amps on a 14 AWG is normal operating current. Solar panels are current sources, not voltage like a battery.

          Short your panels out, if they are in strong sun at high noon may deliver 9 amps at most. Short out your battery and you have a fire, vaporized copper exploding, and boiling hot acid spewing everywhere. Short your panels out, you can relax and go to bed. Short your batteries out, and you will be in a hospital bed recovering.
          Last edited by Sunking; 07-18-2017, 11:53 PM.
          MSEE, PE

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Sunking View Post
            .....

            However Breakers are not meant to be used as Switches, and if you use them as Switches will weaken them, and you will get false and nuisance trips......
            Actually, many of the breakers carried/sold by Midnight, ARE rated for switch duty use, I use them in combiners and both sides of the Controller as needed and for my convenience,
            You must, however, have the Line and Load terminals identified and wired properly for the internal Arc Chute to work right.

            http://www.midnitesolar.com/productP...Order=18&act=p
            MidNite's breakers are rated to break the full rated load at the rated voltage repeatedly, with NO DAMAGE. Always use a properly sized breaker for disconnecting.

            Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
            || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
            || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

            solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
            gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Carv View Post
              I pull my batteries when parked, so I don't have to worry about false trips.


              If I'm running a 30A epever mppt, should I run a 30, 35, or 40A breaker to the batteries?

              Also on the PV feed to the charge controller should I use a 10, 15, or 20A?



              I'm running 2 of the 260W panels in series, here's my panel specs Yingli YGE -60 Cell Specs.jpg





              Thanks
              I don't think there is PM ability available here (any more?) Give me a call if you have a few minutes.
              2.2kw Suntech mono, Classic 200, NEW Trace SW4024

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
                Actually, many of the breakers carried/sold by Midnight, ARE rated for switch duty use, I use them in combiners and both sides of the Controller as needed and for my convenience, You must, however, have the Line and Load terminals identified and wired properly for the internal Arc Chute to work right.
                My bad, forgot about those. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Personally I would not use them as they cost way to much and other more suited product out there. I can see that say between the batteries and Inverter, but not between panels and converter that requires no OCPD or Switch, especially on an RV. He can get exactly what he want by just using Hot Pluggable Connectors for $10 to $15. He is certainly welcome and nothing preventing him to use expensive breakers or fuses between panels and controller.. My question is why? There is no gain, just an expensive failure point. Last RV I set up a while ago we used the Panel Mount Anderson with umbilical cord. For the cod we just used a heavy duty outdoor rated 12/3 extension cord. I suggested he use SO, but the cod he found had flex fine stranded tinned copper 12 AWg conductors. Slick, easy, functional, and inexpensive. That is how I roll.

                MSEE, PE

                Comment


                • Midnite solar breakers can be found for $12.50 apiece. I see some vendors getting 24 to 26 apiece but just a little shopping around online pays off
                  2.2kw Suntech mono, Classic 200, NEW Trace SW4024

                  Comment


                  • Here is midnite solar talking about there breakers including that they are designed to be switched under load, AKA switch rated.

                    https://youtu.be/Mtq3cs9Gucc


                    Originally posted by littleharbor View Post
                    Midnite solar breakers are inexpensive. https://www.solar-electric.com/mnepv.html They are dedicated DC breakers. DIN rail mount. Not made in China!
                    Went this route, with the square D box and the midnite solar breakers as switches and over current protection (even if it's not needed).

                    Thanks for the link Mike, Northern AZ sun & wind has them for $11 each, no tax, and $8 shipping so $31 out the door for 2 DC switch rated breakers, that's a good deal!

                    Super happy with this set up, I now have 2 DC switch rated breakers & a solid box for $43 VS the $35 I was going to spend on the wang alternatives like in the picture I posted above or the $60 I was going to spend on the blue sea 7180 resettables.

                    Finally a good solution that allows me to switch the incomming & outgoing feeds, have over currant protection, and all at a reasonable price., thanks again Mike!

                    (I will have to modify the square D box with a small DIN rail and a spacer to get the breakers faced in the box but that should be pretty easy).

                    Last edited by Carv; 07-22-2017, 01:11 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Too bad you didn't get the MidNite Baby Box for those breakers. No modifications required.
                      It is required by NEC to have an overcurrent device and switch between the solar panels and controller. It is more of a convenience in my mind, since you won't ever trip the breaker, but if you plan on meeting code, you would need that breaker.
                      I am curious how Littleharbor has a 'new" Trace 4024? Those went out of production about ten years ago. They were great inverters though.I had a couple of them until recently.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by rgudgel View Post
                        I am curious how Littleharbor has a 'new" Trace 4024? Those went out of production about ten years ago. They were great inverters though.I had a couple of them until recently.
                        I bought the Trace SW 4024 in a factory sealed box from a guy who had it in the back of his warehouse and had forgotten about it. I held onto it for a few years until I set up my system in Baja. It was nice to pop the tape and staple clad top of the box to reveal the pristine inverter and all the paperwork,, manual and accompanying parts under the plastic sheeting. It has a Mfg. date of 2001.
                        2.2kw Suntech mono, Classic 200, NEW Trace SW4024

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by rgudgel View Post
                          It is required by NEC to have an overcurrent device and switch between the solar panels and controller. It is more of a convenience in my mind, since you won't ever trip the breaker, but if you plan on meeting code, you would need that breaker.
                          Overcurrent device is only required when more than 2 panels or strings are in parallel.

                          Requirements for disconnects depend somewhat on how the system is installed.
                          CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by rgudgel View Post
                            It is required by NEC to have an overcurrent device and switch between the solar panels and controller.
                            1. No Sir OCPD are not required or needed for a single string of panels to comply with NEC. Only required when 3 or more strings are used.
                            2. It is an RV so NEC requirements do not apply.
                            MSEE, PE

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by rgudgel View Post
                              Too bad you didn't get the MidNite Baby Box for those breakers. No modifications required.
                              Actually it's ALL GOOD, the midnite box is $132 and I do NOT think it even includes the breakers. So for the extra $90 I saved not going that route I'll be able to get the other fuses I need and still saved some money and have the same breakers. As far as I'm concerned this is the much better alternative for those who are watching their $$$.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Carv View Post
                                ....... So for the extra $90 I saved not going that route I'll be able to get the other fuses I need and still saved some money and have the same breakers. As far as I'm concerned this is the much better alternative for those who are watching their $$$.
                                You are aware that fuses cannot be used to manually open a circuit . Breakers (esp the Midnight DC rated ones) can be used as switches for troubleshooting.

                                Remember, touch safe fuse holders are only safe to open when the current flow is stopped, either blown fuse, or manual cut off somewhere.

                                Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                                || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                                || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                                solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                                gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                                Comment

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