Advice on RV Set up & Wiring?

[Carv]

Not sure; one I don't sit around and watch on my app to see what it's charging at, i just can see that it's chargingc Two, the CC will only make that kind of power when the batteries are low.... But if the batteries are to low the CC will cut off and not send any change so it's a narrow range.

Next time the batteries are low and it's sunny out I'll check it and see what kind of amps there doing keep in mind the panels are flat mounted too.

[Ho jo]

Good job carv!! Solarpaneltalk is both educational and enertaining. How often does your 520 panel watts actually make 30 amps of charge power?

[Carv]

Just to wrap this up, I ran the grounds back to a dist block them grounded that back to the batteries, closed the loops on the chasis grounded 15w Trickle charge solar panel and grounded that back to it's battery, programed the inverter to kick on based on fridge load demand so it's only inverting/ drawing when called on by the fridge.

System's been working great for over a year.

Fridge uses about 8% to 10% of total AH from sun down to sun up, of course days are shorter in winter but load required to cool fridge is less also since it's colder. Most days batteries are full by 10am from overnight drain.

Best thing I did was install the switch rated breakers, which allows me to completely shut off the system when not in use.. Makes things super simple and I don't when worry about the Chinese PV converter failing because it has to dump load all day long when not in use.

[Sunking]

1) to answer your question, I'm not an electrical engineer but I would not, your DC system is grounded to the frame and if you discharged AC to the frame also I'm not sure what would happen. The AC chassis ground is for shorts in your inverters AC output as a way for it to discharge the load and trip the circuit. This was discussed earlier in this thread..

Sorry wrong answer and could be quite dangerous. Under normal conditions the Ground wire does nothing and has no function other than to minimise shock potential differences you suggest giving up. The real danger has escaped you; What happens if there is a DC Fault in the Inverter?

The ground is not there to protect the AC circuit, it is to clear and operate the big fuse between the battery and inverter. As for AC circuit protection the Ground does nothing. It is impossible for the Inverter to generate enough current to even blow a 15 or 20 amp fuse. That is why the receptacles you use to plug into are GFCI and as such ground is not required or needed to operate correctly. .

Correct answer is as shown in the diagrams. A #6 AWG is required to operate a large battery fuse of 100 amps or more. It has to be that big to handle the current. Nothing to do with AC.

Besides unless you somehow insulated the Inverter chassis from the vehicle frame like mounting it on plywood or some other insulating material, you have unplanned incidental contact with the frame of unknown resistance making it dangerous. You eliminate any possibility of a problem by grounding the chassis of the Inverter with a planned low resistance ground like a 6 AWG to the frame of the vehicle.

Other than that I agree with you, You are not an engineer.

Oh your second question

your DC system is grounded to the frame and if you discharged AC to the frame also I'm not sure what would happen

Well if you bond it as I pointed out; The system shuts down and disconnects as planned by an engineer. No one gets hurt, no fire to worry about, and a good chance you save your equipment from meltdown so you can still use it once you clear the fault.

Your way, all I can say is good luck with that. As long as ground is not needed, you can get away with it. I wear suspenders and a belt.

[littleharbor]

With a double breaker setup, (one for CC/battery and one for solar array/CC) ALWAYS turn on CC/battery first, Solar array second. When powering down always turn off solar first, battery second.

Controllers need to boot up and some need to figure whether you are running 12 or 24 volts so allow a minute before turning on the solar.

[Carv]

Looks like a nice setup Carv. Since your rig is used only part time do you change the settings on your charge controller to float the batteries when not in use?

I turn off both breakers (batteries and solar) when not in use, let them rest for 2 weeks then turn them on for a couple hours to charge them up to full, every 2 to 4 weeks. I just checked them after 2 weeks of no use and they where 95% full or lost about 10.2Ah sitting for 14 days.

I don't trust the Chinese charge controller to not have problems if it's constantly draining off voltage especially with nobody watching it. I've also read it's bad for batteries to be constantly charging even on trickle. So I give them a break for 2 to 4 weeks charge them up, take them out for a weekend, put them back charged, let them sit then top them off 2 weeks later.

Seems to be working for now.

I will say it's very nice having the breaker set up, easy on, easy off, when ever I want it. Just flick them on for a couple hours the tri-metric tells me how charged they are, flick them off, and I'm good to go.

Going through this process was a total pain in the a$$ but it seems to be working good so far.

[Carv]

Could I get some opinions on this setup created by John @ gnomadhome : Main question is would you ground the inverter chassis to the rv chassis given there is a grounding terminal provided on the inverter chassis which looks like it would accommodate about 16 awg wire (is that big enough?) also would you ground the 12v battery bank to the same rv chassis on the other side directly from the negative terminal of the bank?
Screenshot_2017-11-08-07-14-56.png

1) to answer your question, I'm not an electrical engineer but I would not, your DC system is grounded to the frame and if you discharged AC to the frame also I'm not sure what would happen. The AC chassis ground is for shorts in your inverters AC output as a way for it to discharge the load and trip the circuit. This was discussed earlier in this thread.

2) I would follow sunking's wiring diagram making adjustments for appropriate/proper wiring size and fusing. I'd also note you DO NOT have to make Seprate runs back to the battery terminals for each component, you can make a single set of wires in and out (positive and negative) and lug on from there like I did. Different wiring set ups are posted on handy Bob's solar blog again posted earlier in the thread.

3) In your diagram, you need to move the DC load center/blade fuse center and the neg bus bar to run off the batteries. The"load" off the CC is for small draw components, like a USB charger, led light(s), etc. Plus it only has power when you're producing watts via the panels. You want your panels to charge your main batteries then pull DC load off of them and AC off your inverter which also pulls off the batteries.

Read this entire post and the handy Bob solar blog and you'll know everything you need to, to figure out your system.

Sun King: you reap what you sow, so don't be one bit surprised when people jump all over your a$$ for little mistakes. I guess it's harder to take your medicine than to dispense it.

[Sunking]

Your schematic is more dangerous than the one you are criticizing. 10 AWG protected by a 60 A fuse? really?

Well you know it was a typo just like Sun Eagle did, and yes I meant 6 awg. But since you are looking for a fight and threw the fist punch, I am more than happy to dance with you. Tell you what. I will tie one hand behind my back to make it fair. To do that I will apply NEC code., Now if i really wanted to hurt you, I would use Automotive SAE standards which is where RV fall into. This thread is about Mobile applications pertaining to Auto and RV industry and NEC codes do not apply and I am 100% correct. Using SAE standards made for autos have a completely different set of standards, and on 10 AWG auto wiring I can use up to a 80 amp fuse with 125 C rated wire. But i will tie a hand behind my back n to make it a fair fight and use more Conservative NEC safety requirements you do not know about. .

Yes you Can Use 10 AWG Wire. Allow me to educate you and knock you out. If you use 90 degree wire in open air, you can use 10 AWG up to 55 amps (NEC Table 310.15(B)(17), or 80 amps with 8 AWG. However all I gotta do is use a higher temp wire like Automotive uses say SA building and power wire and use NEC Table 310.15 (B)(19) and 10 AWG SA is good to 90 amps, so 60 amps is no problem.

Would I use 10 AWG SA on a 60 amp fuse. Absolutely fricking yes if it meets the 2% or less voltage drop or no more than 2 feet 1-way length. 1, 2, 3, .... 10 your out cold and I win buy knock out. You can bet the next time you see that drawing will be 6 AWG.

The load terminal is OK for resistive loads up to its rating. Both the Commander and Rover models have a 20 A output rating on those terminals.

Another horrible idea. Why waste all that money for a punny 20 amp circuit when you can get the same thing I already showed in drawing 2 you had to open your mouth about. Only good use for the Load Terminal is a low power LED night light or even better a LVD Driver

[Sunking]

Sunking, Pointing out a technical error in a post hardly constitutes a vendetta. And pointing out technical errors in YOUR posts is family fun for everyone - just a blowback from the way that you go about presenting the information.

Nah it is just Sensij. Any of the mods and regulars know I am pretty good with numbers and safety. Example Sun Eagle knew it was a typo because he knows me. I am confident Mike or Steve would know that also. Sensij just wants a fight he will loose. He jumped at the chance to be Moderator to censor me and try to run me off. I know what he is up to.

[AzRoute66]

Sunking, Pointing out a technical error in a post hardly constitutes a vendetta. And pointing out technical errors in YOUR posts is family fun for everyone - just a blowback from the way that you go about presenting the information.

[Sunking]

I bet he used the drawing that included a 20amp CC which the #10 awg wire size would make sense. But with a 60amp CC that wire needs to be around a #6 awg.

Yes Sir 6 AWG, just an over site. Thanks for pointing it out. But FWIW, yes you could use 10 AWG.

[SunEagle]

Your schematic is more dangerous than the one you are criticizing. 10 AWG protected by a 60 A fuse? really?

The load terminal is OK for resistive loads up to its rating. Both the Commander and Rover models have a 20 A output rating on those terminals.

I bet he used the drawing that included a 20amp CC which the #10 awg wire size would make sense. But with a 60amp CC that wire needs to be around a #6 awg.

[sensij]

Here is what a proper circuit looks like

Your schematic is more dangerous than the one you are criticizing. 10 AWG protected by a 60 A fuse? really?

The load terminal is OK for resistive loads up to its rating. Both the Commander and Rover models have a 20 A output rating on those terminals.

[Sunking]

Could I get some opinions on this setup created by John @ gnomadhome : Main question is would you ground the inverter chassis to the rv chassis given there is a grounding terminal provided on the inverter chassis which looks like it would accommodate about 16 awg wire (is that big enough?) also would you ground the 12v battery bank to the same rv chassis on the other side directly from the negative terminal of the bank?

Whoever drew that diagram has no biz playing with electricity.

To start the LOAD Terminal should not be used for anything. If used as shown will burn up the controller. The smoking gun is 40 amp controller with a 30 amp fuse on the output.

Here is what a proper circuit looks like. Ignore the Battery Isolator and associated wiring as this drawing is intended for an RV.

[Svg09851]

Could I get some opinions on this setup created by John @ gnomadhome : Main question is would you ground the inverter chassis to the rv chassis given there is a grounding terminal provided on the inverter chassis which looks like it would accommodate about 16 awg wire (is that big enough?) also would you ground the 12v battery bank to the same rv chassis on the other side directly from the negative terminal of the bank?
Screenshot_2017-11-08-07-14-56.png