Adding more panels to RV?

[reed cundiff]

We do have a 1 kW generator with our 5th wheel which has only been run for 30 minutes or so every 30 days as the manufacturer suggests. We go south to Yucatan in Winter and north or to higher elevation in summer. Spent last summer in Newfoundland/Labrador. It was 103 at younger son's place in Fort Collins a few years ago and we went up to 10,400' or so and the temperature was 38 F at night and 72 C or so during the day. We are retired and have the option of going where we can achieve Goldilock life style "not to hot, not to cold, just right!" Not running a generator means wildlife is not run off and most pretty much accept our presence in a few days. Had two young Bull Moose fighting within 25 metres of 5th wheel a few years ago.
Reed and Elaine

[Sunking]

We do have a 1 kW generator with our 5th wheel which has only been run for 30 minutes or so every 30 days as the manufacturer suggests.

Reed you have Lithium batteries, huge difference between Pb which must remained fully charged. Even with Lithium batteries cloudy days happen and when you have two or 3 cloudy days you are SOL when the batteries are discharged. So you either have to have a genny or go dark. Not rocket science. At least with Lithium you are not forced to fully charge as you are with Pb. Lithium works best at partial state of charge and are damage if kept fully charged like Pb. You are comparing apples and oranges.

[Sunking]

Hi Dramaking! Bored again and looking for a fight as usual? Need a hug?

Perhaps if you are a cute bleach bottle blonde female with big (.)(.) like my wife. You might. as you are just about as dumb.

Anyway, not sure why you want to dwell on it, but no matter how petty and childish you are about it, the fact remains that I haven't needed a generator in my RV in years. Nor have most of the people I know with solar.

Then they are dumb as you after all those years and have not learned anything. Anyone with off-grid experience knows a genny is needed. After a couple of cloudy days, the batteries are exhausted and you go dark. That simple anyone can understand. Without a generator or Isolator to recharge, you set in the dark and wait for a couple of sunny days to recharge batteries. They do not charge themselves with clouds no rdo watt hours fall out of the sky

My guess is and it is along shot your batteries are large enough, and loads lite enough you can go 4 days until exhausted. Like you just admitted at most gone 4 days. Get home and park it to recharge your poor tired batteries if it was cloudy. Otherwise you are full of crap and do not know what you are talking about. Anyone living off grid for any amount of time knows they have to have a genny. There is no way around it unless you like spending a few months out of the year in the dark and replacing abused batteries every year or two. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR YOU TO DO AN EQ Charge without a genny or shore power when you get home. So don;t feed us your crap Blondie. We are not buying you a drink.

[Wrybread]

You might. as you are just about as dumb.

Ah the battle cry of the keyboard warrior. Can I make you a tshirt that says "I play a tough guy on the internet"? I'm sure your golf buddies would be impressed.

Since I'm pretty sure you have absolutely no real world experience with solar on RVs (please cite your experience with RV solar if I'm wrong), I'm curious what your thought process is. Do you think I'm lying about not needing a generator? Or do you think I'm lying about not having one? Or are you so stuck in abstract theory that when real world experience contradicts your theory, you think it's real world experience that's got it wrong?

Now mind you I never said no one needs a generator in their RV. If you're living full time in your RV, you might need a generator. If you really don't want to have to conserve power on those rare occasions when a multi day storm is coming, you might need a generator. If you need air conditioning even when you're boondocking, you definitely need a generator. If you insist on watching a giant screen TV for 10 hours a day, you might need a generator. If you need to run your furnace with it's 80 watt blower all day and night, you might need a generator. If you have a thing for incandescent lights, you might need a generator. But in my experience, and the experience of everyone I know with good solar on their RVs, with a few easy power consumption optimizations, I absolutely, positively do not need a generator. Never have, and never will. I didn't go below 11.8 volts all winter, and only went that low once, and it was a record setting winter for storms here in Northern California. I'll continue to tear out the gennie on every new RV I get, as I have for years. And whenever I see someone running one, it says to me that their solar systems need improvement (if they have one at all).

[Sunking]

Ah the battle cry of the keyboard warrior. Can I make you a tshirt that says "I play a tough guy on the internet"? I'm sure your golf buddies would be impressed.

Since I'm pretty sure you have absolutely no real world experience with solar on RVs (please cite your experience with RV solar if I'm wrong), I'm curious what your thought process is. Do you think I'm lying about not needing a generator? Or do you think I'm lying about not having one? Or are you so stuck in abstract theory that when real world experience contradicts your theory, you think it's real world experience that's got it wrong?.

Nope you have just demonstrated you do not know what you are doing. Nothing more or nothing less. I have already covered my design and use experience. Stickies are full of RV drawings I made and built. I use those same drawing on many threads you have participated in.

I know why you have gotten away with what you have done, but you do not know how badly you abuse your batteries, or why you have gotten away with it.

[Wrybread]

I have already covered my design and use experience. Stickies are full of RV drawings I made and built. I use those same drawing on many threads you have participated in.

So it's confirmed, you have no hands on experience doing RV solar whatsoever. Zero, none.

Meaning you don't understand how they're used (hint: most people don't live in them full time), the tradeoffs involved, the budget priorities, mounting issues, planning factors, usage patterns, space constraints, how absolutely horrible it is to rely on a generator, and, most importantly, how beautifully solar works on an RV.

That puts a very large asterix next to all your advice in this forum. And a lot of the advice you give here, when you get away from abstract theory, is just plain wrong. My favorite quote of yours was when you said solar on an RV is "just a conversation piece, nothing more". It's no big deal that you're wrong, that itself is forgivable, and we're all here to learn. But when you spend every single day being loudly wrong about RV solar, it becomes an issue, and people who use it successfully are going to call you on it.

Earlier in this thread you told someone "One way or the other, solar cannot do what you want. It is not home and called Roughing It for a reason. Going off in a RV is all about unplugging and getting away from TV, phones, and internet. If you want all the comforts, use an RV park with electric hook ups and pull a car." As if you have any clue what you're talking about. TV, phones and internet, computers, all that stuff works beautifully in an RV with solar. It would be hilarious if you weren't so noisy with your ignorance.

I know why you have gotten away with what you have done, but you do not know how badly you abuse your batteries, or why you have gotten away with it.

I shouldn't be surprised, but yet again you're just shouting your ignorance. No grounding in reality whatsoever. You just throw as much mud as you can to see what will stick.

Anyway, not to play the Sunking game, but please cite a single thing I've said that's wrong about battery treatment. Of course you can't, since it's just more of your shot in the dark insults to distract people. My batteries almost never go below 12.2, never ever below 11.8, and they're fully charged up by solar every single week when I'm not using the RV. Hell, they're fully charged up most days even when I'm there. I have 600 watts of panels going into 4 Trojan T-105s, giving me a nice healthy charge rate. I equalize my batteries every few months and stay on top of the fluid level. My batteries are almost as clean looking as the day they were new.

And again, none of this would be any big deal, if you weren't single handedly responsible for so many people abandoning solar for their RVs based on your bad and uninformed advice. And if you're not giving bad advice in this forum you're clogging up threads with your childish bickering and shot in the dark insults.

[SunEagle]

So it's confirmed, you have no hands on experience doing RV solar whatsoever. Zero, none.

Meaning you don't understand how they're used (hint: most people don't live in them full time), the tradeoffs involved, the budget priorities, mounting issues, planning factors, usage patterns, space constraints, how absolutely horrible it is to rely on a generator, and, most importantly, how beautifully solar works on an RV.

That puts a very large asterix next to all your advice in this forum. And a lot of the advice you give here, when you get away from abstract theory, is just plain wrong. My favorite quote of yours was when you said solar on an RV is "just a conversation piece, nothing more". It's no big deal that you're wrong, that itself is forgivable, and we're all here to learn. But when you spend every single day being loudly wrong about RV solar, it becomes an issue, and people who use it successfully are going to call you on it.

Earlier in this thread you told someone "One way or the other, solar cannot do what you want. It is not home and called Roughing It for a reason. Going off in a RV is all about unplugging and getting away from TV, phones, and internet. If you want all the comforts, use an RV park with electric hook ups and pull a car." As if you have any clue what you're talking about. TV, phones and internet, computers, all that stuff works beautifully in an RV with solar. It would be hilarious if you weren't so noisy with your ignorance.



I shouldn't be surprised, but yet again you're just shouting your ignorance. No grounding in reality whatsoever. You just throw as much mud as you can to see what will stick.

Anyway, not to play the Sunking game, but please cite a single thing I've said that's wrong about battery treatment. Of course you can't, since it's just more of your shot in the dark insults to distract people. My batteries almost never go below 12.2, never ever below 11.8, and they're fully charged up by solar every single week when I'm not using the RV. Hell, they're fully charged up most days even when I'm there. I have 600 watts of panels going into 4 Trojan T-105s, giving me a nice healthy charge rate. I equalize my batteries every few months and stay on top of the fluid level. My batteries are almost as clean looking as the day they were new.

And again, none of this would be any big deal, if you weren't single handedly responsible for so many people abandoning solar for their RVs based on your bad and uninformed advice. And if you're not giving bad advice in this forum you're clogging up threads with your childish bickering and shot in the dark insults.

Unfortunately the majority of the people that live in an RV do not have the understanding to keep a solar /battery system working properly. Sure there are some like you but a large number or more plug and play and will toast their batteries within the first year. This is why solar and RVing is not a good combination for everybody because they require AC, TV's, microwaves and coffee pots that consume large amounts of kWh a day.

It is just like cities that feel they can run 100% of their electric equipment using only RE. Again those that can do that are few and far between but a lot of people believe it is both easy and doable. They are not being realistic and are living in a dream world because they really do not understand the requirements of power generation and distribution.

So enjoy your RV and solar because it sounds like you are happy. But also know that while you and a few others can do this most will not be able to do so.

It is those people that I (and others like Sunking) try to give good advice and cautious planning to so they do not jump in with both feet and invest a lot of their hard earned money in technology that will not get them 100% of their power generation.

[Wrybread]

All good points, but I think it ignores an absolutely key fact with RV solar: people learn quickly. Sure they *think* they need their microwave and electric hot plate, and come here declaring their intention of building a system that can power all that. But soon they get a sense of what sorts of loads are realistic. And then they replace that electric coffee maker with a stovetop system. No biggie and a very easy fix.

It is just like cities that feel they can run 100% of their electric equipment using only RE.

I don't think that's a good analogy because in a city people aren't likely to adjust their expectations and habits, while with an RV that's a lot easier.

So enjoy your RV and solar because it sounds like you are happy. But also know that while you and a few others can do this most will not be able to do so.

I respectfully disagree. I've met a whole lot more people who love their solar systems than hate them. In fact except for this forum I've never met anyone with decent solar and a bit of knowledge who doesn't also love it and consider it indispensable.

a lot of their hard earned money in technology that will not get them 100% of their power generation.

People need batteries whether or not they have solar, so the added expense for a good solar system is pretty small (around $400 to $600). Given that it's probably the single best upgrade you can make to an RV, I'd call that cheap.

And as far as doing routine maintenance on batteries, lets be honest, none of this stuff is rocket science. Explaining to people not to let your batteries go too low and to keep the fluid level above the fins is about as simple as it gets, and I have yet to meet anyone who couldn't wrap their head around it.

[Sunking]

So it's confirmed, you have no hands on experience doing RV solar whatsoever. Zero, none. .

Are you crazy or just plain stupid and cannot read?

[Wrybread]

Sorry, but drawing up charts and posting on an Internet forum doesn't count as hands on experience.

Have you owned an rv with solar?

[Sunking]

Custom built two solar systems on rv's. Modeled my designs on the best practices used by commercial; builders, and spent my childhood in an Airstream with my dad and brothers as a kid on hunting trips. Not to mention rented a many of them with solar and guess what? Every one of them had a meager 250 watt panel. generator, and battery isolator because the pros know solar cannot keep up. Just came back from Myrtle Beach and spent 4 nights with Moron in his large RV we built his Solar System. Had dozen of other pilots comd look and ask for tips because he can do things not many other RVer's can do like park in deep shade, light up a campsite, light up a run way, charge up dozens of fairly large lithium batteries for planes and party all night long with music. I am a professional ,not a shade tree mechanic. We designed Moron's RV to do that. With the right planning, solar is not needed for 2 and 3 day excursions, just a show and tell or supplemental power to extens your batteries for a day before you have to run a genny or start the engine. Without a genny or Isolator, you have built yourself a trap with no way out. Sooner or later you wil have cloudy days and exhaust your batteries. Without a genny or Isolator you are SOL. Anyone with common sense can understand that.

[ewarnerusa]

RV park/full hook-up site campers are not typically interested in solar, they don't have power concerns because it comes from the grid. So trying to offer advice on how to put a solar system on a camper that provides the same utility as the full hook-up site is not helpful. You will come to the conclusion that it won't work, no big surprise and no meaningful knowledge is provided. Yes, there is the occasional full timer that is interested in this type of system. But their needs are not the same as a camper's.
I'm of the same opinion as Wrybread, off grid campers exploring solar are often already well versed in power management and don't need an over the top, good enough for residential system to meet all of their power needs. That's why those of us successfully doing for a while have an eye rolling response with some of the advice offered in this sub forum. Solar most certainly does work terrific for the long weekend warrior off grid camper. I haven't needed a generator in years either. Hydrometer shows that my batteries are happy and healthy, they are kept at bursting full charge as the camper sits at home which is where it spends most of its time.

[SunEagle]

RV park/full hook-up site campers are not typically interested in solar, they don't have power concerns because it comes from the grid. So trying to offer advice on how to put a solar system on a camper that provides the same utility as the full hook-up site is not helpful. You will come to the conclusion that it won't work, no big surprise and no meaningful knowledge is provided. Yes, there is the occasional full timer that is interested in this type of system. But their needs are not the same as a camper's.
I'm of the same opinion as Wrybread, off grid campers exploring solar are often already well versed in power management and don't need an over the top, good enough for residential system to meet all of their power needs. That's why those of us successfully doing for a while have an eye rolling response with some of the advice offered in this sub forum. Solar most certainly does work terrific for the long weekend warrior off grid camper. I haven't needed a generator in years either. Hydrometer shows that my batteries are happy and healthy, they are kept at bursting full charge as the camper sits at home which is where it spends most of its time.

I am glad it is working for you.

I still say you are in the minority of RV people that understand and know how to not abuse their solar / battery system.

I will tell you that the vast majority of RV campers that I have met do not want to live off grid and wouldn't think about not using their AC system when it is hot. I guess living in Florida it is a little different then RVing up in the mountains. So while solar may interest them they will not spend the money to install the panels because they are happy just connecting to the grid or using their alternator to recharge the coach batteries.

[Wrybread]

Custom built two solar systems on rv's. Modeled my designs on the best practices used by commercial; builders, and spent my childhood in an Airstream with my dad and brothers as a kid on hunting trips. Not to mention rented a many of them with solar and guess what? Every one of them had a meager 250 watt panel. generator, and battery isolator because the pros know solar cannot keep up. Just came back from Myrtle Beach and spent 4 nights with Moron in his large RV we built his Solar System. Had dozen of other pilots comd look and ask for tips because he can do things not many other RVer's can do like park in deep shade, light up a campsite, light up a run way, charge up dozens of fairly large lithium batteries for planes and party all night long with music. I am a professional ,not a shade tree mechanic. We designed Moron's RV to do that. With the right planning, solar is not needed for 2 and 3 day excursions, just a show and tell or supplemental power to extens your batteries for a day before you have to run a genny or start the engine. Without a genny or Isolator, you have built yourself a trap with no way out. Sooner or later you wil have cloudy days and exhaust your batteries. Without a genny or Isolator you are SOL. Anyone with common sense can understand that.

Translation: you've never owned an RV with solar.

You had an Airstream when you were a kid, but it didn't have solar.

You've rented a couple of RVs (ha!) with crappy solar systems. I think your 250 watts of solar estimate on those is nonsense, they had 70 watt panels like every other rental. But who knows, maybe you found the one RV with decent solar. They still had abused batteries though.

Just came back from Myrtle Beach and spent 4 nights with Moron in his large RV we built his Solar System. Had dozen of other pilots comd look and ask for tips because he can do things not many other RVer's can do like park in deep shade, light up a campsite, light up a run way, charge up dozens of fairly large lithium batteries for planes and party all night long with music.

I'm confused. So you're saying that solar worked really well? Or are you saying that you had enough batteries to last without it? Or you used a generator?

Either way, your description of lighting up the campsite, people coming by to charge their gear, music all night, sounds like my RV too. All powered by solar.

With the right planning, solar is not needed for 2 and 3 day excursions

You make it sound like solar is super expensive or difficult to operate, and must be avoided at all costs. You clearly hate solar for some reason, but for the rest of us its an inexpensive, easy, set-it-and-forget-it way to have all the power we need. It's far easier, cheaper and more reliable than whatever you're calling "the right planning". There's simply no downside to it, despite all your gloom and doom ranting.

just a show and tell or supplemental power to extens your batteries for a day before you have to run a genny or start the engine

You think solar only extends batteries for a day or so??? Well I'm glad we fully established that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about when it comes to the practical application of RV solar.

Because the pros know solar can't keep up

The "pros" are wrong. And you don't speak for them. And your opinions are uninformed and outdated.

ewarnerusa:

I'm of the same opinion as Wrybread, off grid campers exploring solar are often already well versed in power management and don't need an over the top, good enough for residential system to meet all of their power needs. That's why those of us successfully doing for a while have an eye rolling response with some of the advice offered in this sub forum. Solar most certainly does work terrific for the long weekend warrior off grid camper. I haven't needed a generator in years either. Hydrometer shows that my batteries are happy and healthy, they are kept at bursting full charge as the camper sits at home which is where it spends most of its time.

Well put ewarnerusa. There's a bizarre phenomenon on this forum of people without any real world RV solar experience, or without decent RV solar systems thinking that when people's real world experience contradicts their theory, it's real world experience that's got it wrong. Now at least I've got Sunking's experience with the practical application of RV solar well documented, so it's easier to put his "advice" into perspective for people who want to install solar.

[Wrybread]

I still say you are in the minority of RV people that understand and know how to not abuse their solar / battery system.

That hasn't been my experience at all. I guess it's true for the average person with no experience with solar, but anyone can learn to maintain their batteries. Takes about 30 seconds to get the super important basics (don't over discharge them), and another few minutes to get the rest.

I will tell you that the vast majority of RV campers that I have met do not want to live off grid and wouldn't think about not using their AC system when it is hot. I guess living in Florida it is a little different then RVing up in the mountains.

Florida is a pretty extreme case, as are the mountains. I'm a happy medium here in California, and solar easily meets 100% of my needs. I wonder what the actual proportion of RVs is where people need air conditioning all the time, but I have a feeling it's pretty low.