Adding more panels to RV?

[adoublee]

The costs for aluminum brackets, design and fabricating a structure with pneumatic piston arms to assist with lifting and lowering the solar awning, and also 8 300 watt solar panels, outback controller, inverter, lithium batteries, battery case, all wiring and connectors, etc is about $18,000. Then subtract 30% for Federal credit on my tax return so out of pocket was about $12,000 yet compared to a good, fairly quiet GENERATOR which costs about $8,000, the additional cost works out to only about $4,000 above doing it conventionally. And I do not have any fuel costs as I would with a Generator. The costs in the US are $500 to $1,000 a month for fuel for generators on food trucks. Obviously in a mere 4 to 8 months I am in the BLACK then and the solar vs generator argument is mute. It is MAKING ME MONEY! Plus, with solar panels on my truck I have so many other benefits---no mess and pain in the ass of buying fuel, transporting fuel, refueling, no stink of the exhaust, no noise at all (even quiet generators make noise especially in a confined space... And I am a rolling POWER PLANT that is using the SUN to make all my electricity for all me electrical needs; that means self reliance and self sufficiency. And solar saves me TIME! No time loss for getting fuel, refueling, etc.. and on a food truck TIME IS MONEY.

Good on you for doing and not listening to what others tell you can't be done. Thanks for sharing here.

[Zoar]

Impressive system. I am glad it is working out for you.

Although I am surprised at the lost cost considering you have lithium batteries. But then again if you work at putting the system together yourself you can find the parts for great prices.

For those that are reading, you can find some great quite generators in the 3000 watt area like the Yamaha or Honda that cost < $1/watt and way below that $8000. But to each their own on where they want to get their power from.

I appreciate you posting this information.

I see this is a pro- FOSSIL fuel forum so I am going to bow out now. After about a month here it is clear it is pro Fossil Fuel FIRST and the constant digs against solar are not what I can tolerate anymore. Bye everyone. I'm gone. Enjoy the fumes.

[J.P.M.]

I see this is a pro- FOSSIL fuel forum so I am going to bow out now. After about a month here it is clear it is pro Fossil Fuel FIRST and the constant digs against solar are not what I can tolerate anymore. Bye everyone. I'm gone. Enjoy the fumes.

Good luck. Sorry to see you go. Farewell from the forum of few(er) illusions.

[littleharbor]

I see this is a pro- FOSSIL fuel forum so I am going to bow out now. After about a month here it is clear it is pro Fossil Fuel FIRST and the constant digs against solar are not what I can tolerate anymore. Bye everyone. I'm gone. Enjoy the fumes.

Answer me this. Is this anti -fossil fuel wonder you've built an EV? Wind powered? Wood fired steam engine? Peddle powered? or ,God forbid, diesel or gas powered?

[SunEagle]

Good on you for doing and not listening to what others tell you can't be done. Thanks for sharing here.

I agree that Zoar seems to have found a way to make his system profitable. But I would imagine someone else duplicating that system would spend a lot more and not show a profit between a solar/battery system and generator powered system.

I would love to see more solar used but I am also an Electrical Engineer and a realist when it comes to power generation and distribution. What most people that hate to use fossil fuel of any kind do not realize or refuse to believe is that RE can't provide power 24/7/365 no matter what some State or City Government says about going 100% RE by year XXXX. I say good luck with that goal and don't forget to have candles around when it gets dark.

[Sunking]

My goal here is to keep the motorhome cool during mid day stops while on the road (stopping to eat, tourist stop, get supplies, etc.) , it is not to embrace solar as sole solution.

Isac that is super easy to do if you have an Electronic Battery Isolator. Your engine alternator can easily recharge in 30 minutes of driving. If diesel do what truckers do, let the engine idle while you shop and eat. Hell truckers let the engines run all night long while they sleep. Even if gas engine wil not hurt to let it run at idle.

Your alternator can generate more power in 1 hour than your panels can generate in a day. All you have to do is add the Isolator for $60 to replace several thousands dollars of panels and controller.

[Mike90250]

I see this is a pro- FOSSIL fuel forum so I am going to bow out now. After about a month here it is clear it is pro Fossil Fuel FIRST and the constant digs against solar are not what I can tolerate anymore. Bye everyone. I'm gone. Enjoy the fumes.

Actually, it's a realistic view. I try to minimize generator use, and am "overpaneled". but with weeks of clouds & rain, there are still rare times generators need to run to provide power.

[Sunking]

I see this is a pro- FOSSIL fuel forum so I am going to bow out now. After about a month here it is clear it is pro Fossil Fuel FIRST and the constant digs against solar are not what I can tolerate anymore. Bye everyone. I'm gone. Enjoy the fumes.

Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.

[Isaac-1]

To get a bit even more off topic on this thread I started, I agree solar and RE in general should be about practicality to a degree, and not a religion. Solar may sound nice, and may even work the vast majority of the time in some locations, but that does not mean it can or will work for everyone as a sole source of power.

[J.P.M.]

To get a bit even more off topic on this thread I started, I agree solar and RE in general should be about practicality to a degree, and not a religion. Solar may sound nice, and may even work the vast majority of the time in some locations, but that does not mean it can or will work for everyone as a sole source of power.

As an observation and opinion only, after being around R.E. and R.E. types for ~ 40 years, I think I see a generally positive correlation between how much someone REALLY knows about R.E. and how much they're aware of it's limitations as well as its potential. Such folks sometimes have a bit more ability to work around some of those limitations occasionally and usually within the constraints of common sense. They can dream, but not make dreams their master.

[SunEagle]

As an observation and opinion only, after being around R.E. and R.E. types for ~ 40 years, I think I see a generally positive correlation between how much someone REALLY knows about R.E. and how much they're aware of it's limitations as well as its potential. Such folks sometimes have a bit more ability to work around some of those limitations occasionally and usually within the constraints of common sense. They can dream, but not make dreams their master.

The only way RE will possibly work 100% of the time would be to install very large energy storage systems.

While that technology may be available it still comes down to "what would you pay for every kWh that you use?" Adding energy storage (even with some expected price drops) will raise the cost of electricity much higher then what 100% of the people in the US pay now. If cost isn't an issue then those people can dream about 100% RE as being a reachable goal.

But based on why most people want to install a pv system is usually due to the existing high cost of power from the POCO now. Why would they spend more for a battery system?

IMO I want to save money not spend more.

[Isaac-1]

I agree about the motivation for people to install rooftop PV systems, but as I see it these home rooftop PV systems are about to reach the market penetration point where they can induce instability in the POCO electrical grid. I see it as inevitable that home solar will increase the demand swings of the grid and sooner or later will result in wide spread brownouts and blackouts even with timeshifting technologies like the Tesla Powerwall. All it takes is enough people moving to rooftop PV and a cold front to come through followed by a few days of cloudy weather.

p.s. as to my original issue, while it is true that the engine alternator can restore battery charge faster than solar panels can, that would require more battery storage capacity, which either means expensive Lithium batteries or heavy lead acid which cut into the cargo carrying capacity. Leaving the engine / generator running while away from the vehicle is also just not an option in a lot of places.

[J.P.M.]

The only way RE will possibly work 100% of the time would be to install very large energy storage systems.

While that technology may be available it still comes down to "what would you pay for every kWh that you use?" Adding energy storage (even with some expected price drops) will raise the cost of electricity much higher then what 100% of the people in the US pay now. If cost isn't an issue then those people can dream about 100% RE as being a reachable goal.

But based on why most people want to install a pv system is usually due to the existing high cost of power from the POCO now. Why would they spend more for a battery system?

IMO I want to save money not spend more.

At the bottom line, seems to me capitalistic thinking and using less energy are mostly incompatible with one another.

One way to think of R.E., including solar technologies, is to consider them as one class of tools that's part of a set of means to an end, with the end being - as a practical matter - lower energy bills. To make R.E. work most of the time usually means spending more now for less immediate return, or delaying gain. That's the part where emotion and other human failings like lazy thinking get to screw things up.

Seems to me that most folks have been largely B.S.'d to see or think of solar, PV in particular, as almost an end in itself and a way to get even with the evil POCO, or keep up with the Jones', join the lemming crowd, etc., with the larger and actual goal of lower bills, while still there, almost a distant second for a lot of folks who are brainwashed into throwing expensive and cost ineffective solar devices at gnawing but nonetheless self inflicted high electric bills on the often bogus and in most cases poorly understood promises of a solution from con men whose existence is reliant on their mark's solar ignorance.

For off grid stuff, it seems apparent, to me anyway, that most who show up here with off grid/batteries/lifestyle on their mind, like most others, are abysmally ignorant of what they're considering, but have more to get screwed by in terms of cost and unknown additional hassle ./ And, also like others, often and/or usually get rather indignant when their ignorance is pointed out to them by others who try to point out shortcoming in na

[SunEagle]

I agree about the motivation for people to install rooftop PV systems, but as I see it these home rooftop PV systems are about to reach the market penetration point where they can induce instability in the POCO electrical grid. I see it as inevitable that home solar will increase the demand swings of the grid and sooner or later will result in wide spread brownouts and blackouts even with timeshifting technologies like the Tesla Powerwall. All it takes is enough people moving to rooftop PV and a cold front to come through followed by a few days of cloudy weather.

p.s. as to my original issue, while it is true that the engine alternator can restore battery charge faster than solar panels can, that would require more battery storage capacity, which either means expensive Lithium batteries or heavy lead acid which cut into the cargo carrying capacity. Leaving the engine / generator running while away from the vehicle is also just not an option in a lot of places.

That is the problem they have in Hawaii. The grid can't handle more localized PV installations so the POCO's were not approving them. The home owner now has the option to install a battery (at their cost) to help stabilize the grid.

[Sunking]

p.s. as to my original issue, while it is true that the engine alternator can restore battery charge faster than solar panels can, that would require more battery storage

No it does not. Any and every RV system should have an Isolator whether you have solar or not. In fact with the Isolator negates the need for any solar if you drive at least every other day. Solar is just for show and tell or for extending long stays. You still need a generator or Isolator to get charged up dry camping for extended periods. I do not know many people who park RV's where the summer blazing sun is on the RV from Sunrise to Sunset. Even if you did, orientation and tilt angles are not optimum. $60 for the Isolator that does the job, or thousands for panels and controller that cannot do the job alone.