Tesla Model S ends up getting towed during NY Times test drive.

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  • KRenn
    Solar Fanatic
    • Dec 2010
    • 579

    Tesla Model S ends up getting towed during NY Times test drive.

    This is what happens when you get people who live in year-round 70-80 degree weather designing cars for the rest of the country.

    The poor guy ended up having to drive in 20-30 degree temperatures with the heat off to conserve power and after a few close calls, he ended up stranded and had to get towed. Overall the car gave him significantly less mileage than what was claimed by Tesla.



    At the Washington Auto Show last month, Dr. Chu, who has since announced his plan to leave office in the next few weeks, discussed the Energy Department’s goal of making electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids as cheap and convenient as comparable gasoline-powered cars.

    He continued: “We can’t say this everywhere in America yet, but driving by a gasoline station and smiling is something everyone should experience.”

    I drove a state-of-the-art electric vehicle past a lot of gas stations. I wasn’t smiling.

    Instead, I spent nearly an hour at the Milford service plaza as the Tesla sucked electrons from the hitching post. When I continued my drive, the display read 185 miles, well beyond the distance I intended to cover before returning to the station the next morning for a recharge and returning to Manhattan.


    Tesla’s New York service manager, Adam Williams, found a towing service in Milford that sent a skilled and very patient driver, Rick Ibsen, to rescue me with a flatbed truck. Not so quick: the car’s electrically actuated parking brake would not release without battery power, and hooking the car’s 12-volt charging post behind the front grille to the tow truck’s portable charger would not release the brake. So he had to drag it onto the flatbed, a painstaking process that took 45 minutes. Fortunately, the cab of the tow truck was toasty.
  • liderbug
    Junior Member
    • Jan 2013
    • 14

    #2
    My first question is: Exception or the norm? Was this one built on a Monday or Friday? I use to work for a Detroit car company and you want a car built Tues, Wed or Thur only.

    Comment

    • Sunking
      Solar Fanatic
      • Feb 2010
      • 23301

      #3
      Originally posted by liderbug
      My first question is: Exception or the norm?
      Pretty much the norm. What escapes most people is battery capacity is significantly reduced in cold weather. Lithium In is especially susceptible to cold weather with capacity reduced as much a 50 to 70%.
      MSEE, PE

      Comment

      • inetdog
        Super Moderator
        • May 2012
        • 9909

        #4
        Originally posted by Sunking
        Pretty much the norm. What escapes most people is battery capacity is significantly reduced in cold weather. Lithium In is especially susceptible to cold weather with capacity reduced as much a 50 to 70%.
        Elon Musk has commented with a rebuttal on two grounds, and NYT has responded in turn. It seems to be a they said / they said deal right now.

        1. The car battery bank was not fully charged at the start of the trip. Musk says that the charge indicator showed that. NYT replied that nobody told them that it took longer to charge the battery in cold weather, so they just left the charger on for the recommended time and did not look at the charge indicator.
        [update: NYT says that they charged until the "Charge Complete" light came on. Tesla disputes that.....]
        2. Musk says the GPS data from the car showed that the driver passed up a nearby Supercharger station and continued to drive on a circuitous path at inefficient speeds (also above speed limit) until the car ran out of juice. NYT replies that it was all filmed and what they heck is he talking about.

        Ding! End of Round Two......
        Last edited by inetdog; 02-13-2013, 02:34 PM. Reason: added inefficient speed clarification, also charge indicator update
        SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.

        Comment

        • liderbug
          Junior Member
          • Jan 2013
          • 14

          #5
          The temp (cold) problem went through my mind - "through" being the op word....

          What I would say is think back to ?1900?. The Stanley Steamer... the Model A, T... The steering was a arm like on a outboard motor on some "cars". In another 20 years... Who knows.

          Comment

          • inetdog
            Super Moderator
            • May 2012
            • 9909

            #6
            Originally posted by Sunking
            Pretty much the norm. What escapes most people is battery capacity is significantly reduced in cold weather. Lithium In is especially susceptible to cold weather with capacity reduced as much a 50 to 70%.
            Which leads to the question of whether temperature is important at charging time (in terms of total capacity, not just rates and voltages) or whether it is most important during discharge? The batteries will self-heat quickly during use and if the temperature control system is thermostatic, it should allow them to warm to where full or near full discharge capacity can be provided. Insulated box anyone?

            If charging temperature matters, then maybe that is what Tesla was referring to when they mentioned leaving the charger plugged in overnight. That is, would self-heating (or heat of BMS itself) during float charge warm the batteries enough to allow them to slowly accept more charge?

            Clearly the popular articles are not likely to give us enough information for a proper engineering evaluation.
            SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.

            Comment

            • Sunking
              Solar Fanatic
              • Feb 2010
              • 23301

              #7
              Originally posted by inetdog
              If charging temperature matters, then maybe that is what Tesla was referring to when they mentioned leaving the charger plugged in overnight.
              Been a while since I looked at Tesla, but they clearly state the car has to be plugged in anytime it is not on th eroad. Their BMS and ventilation system is always on. You cannot turn them off.
              MSEE, PE

              Comment

              • bonaire
                Solar Fanatic
                • Jul 2012
                • 717

                #8
                You may be thinking of the hit piece done a year or two ago on the "bricking" of the Tesla Roadster by someone who left a nearly discharged Roadster sitting without being plugged in and that took the batteries down to below their low-SOC level (3.0V for Li).

                The NYT piece was a hit piece. Clearly. They all beat up on the Volt last year and now it's Teslas turn. A lot of media outlets have oil interest (Saudis have interest in Reuters, for instance). Yep, again today, oil prices are slightly up again. Brent Crude may hit 120 soon. Just think about it. There are roughly 1.5 trillion barrels of oil reserves yet to be produced. Can you imagine if some industry came along and made it far less valuable? The world economy is primarily based on energy trading. EVs will be bashed just like people bashed Priuses 10 years ago. Thing is - they actually work. Unlike Fox News dummies like Cavuto who bash EVs without even trying one out and Bolling going out and incorrectly using a Volt and he and his team trash it on air like some high-school gossip fest. They're paid to do that to keep people un-interested in EV technology - calling the Volt and others "golf carts".

                My Volt is a great car. The Tesla model-S is a piece of art and is somewhat beyond what I could afford or would want to own. Some day, they'll drive the costs down and it'll be in more of our price-range. In the mean time other EVs are out there.

                I take issue with Nissan. Their sales people and demo dollies at the car shows tell people "Leaf's range is 100 miles". That is entirely untrue for almost all driving cycles. They need to let people know that the typical range is 70 miles. Of course, if an NYT writer heard 100 miles for the Leaf, then charged it up in winter and then got stuck somewhere at 65 miles in the cold weather - they're an idiot. The Tesla driver in the article is an idiot with intention to harm.

                Good thread by some Volt owners http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?27585
                And, http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?27801
                More coverage today: http://gm-volt.com/2013/02/15/tesla-...off-continues/
                PowerOne 3.6 x 2, 32 SolarWorld 255W mono

                Comment

                • josefaz
                  Member
                  • May 2012
                  • 47

                  #9
                  Interesting rebuttal from Tesla motors http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/most...iar-test-drive

                  I'm not taking sides but I'm hoping this technology becomes practical and affordable in the near future.

                  Comment

                  • russ
                    Solar Fanatic
                    • Jul 2009
                    • 10360

                    #10
                    I believe the Tesla PR people just as much as I believe Broder.
                    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

                    Comment

                    • bonaire
                      Solar Fanatic
                      • Jul 2012
                      • 717

                      #11
                      View the latest business news about the world’s top companies, and explore articles on global markets, finance, tech, and the innovations driving us forward.
                      PowerOne 3.6 x 2, 32 SolarWorld 255W mono

                      Comment

                      • SKY888
                        Member
                        • Feb 2013
                        • 34

                        #12
                        I have a 2012 Nissan Leaf SL, and I can attest that during winter, the battery as well as the mileage of my electric car suffers. And I DONT even use my heater during winter, so I can maintain my usual mileage, but unfortunately thats not the case.

                        I can easily get 80 miles during temperature above 30 degrees.

                        But days that are below 20 degrees (especially during single digits), I can only drive around 60 miles, before fully-charging my car again.

                        So people who will use heater during winter driving with their EV cars will definitely notice the drop of mileage....

                        Comment

                        • SunEagle
                          Super Moderator
                          • Oct 2012
                          • 15125

                          #13
                          Originally posted by SKY888
                          I have a 2012 Nissan Leaf SL, and I can attest that during winter, the battery as well as the mileage of my electric car suffers. And I DONT even use my heater during winter, so I can maintain my usual mileage, but unfortunately thats not the case.

                          I can easily get 80 miles during temperature above 30 degrees.

                          But days that are below 20 degrees (especially during single digits), I can only drive around 60 miles, before fully-charging my car again.

                          So people who will use heater during winter driving with their EV cars will definitely notice the drop of mileage....
                          That's sad to hear but good to know. Looks like EV cars are much better deals for southern climates. Thanks for the info Sky888.

                          Comment

                          • bonaire
                            Solar Fanatic
                            • Jul 2012
                            • 717

                            #14
                            Good in southern climates, sure, but consider Quebec. $5.50/gal of gas and .06/kWh for electricity. The math says they would be good up north too. Some us states like WV and OH have really good electric prices as well. Even with the lower winter mileage, the price per mile beats gas by a factor of two. Leases are very competitive with "normal" cars. Clearwater, as your location says, is a great spot for EVs due to climate and electric costs. Got my volt near there in plant city at Stingray.

                            Drove my Volt today to 31 miles on the charge, but have seen 48 and 49 miles on a good 72degree day. EPA rating of 35 miles says I'm doing better than the rating on electricity and gasoline where I get 41 to 42 on hwy.
                            PowerOne 3.6 x 2, 32 SolarWorld 255W mono

                            Comment

                            • SKY888
                              Member
                              • Feb 2013
                              • 34

                              #15
                              Originally posted by SunEagle
                              That's sad to hear but good to know. Looks like EV cars are much better deals for southern climates. Thanks for the info Sky888.

                              it's kinda sad, but not really.


                              Even if the batteries of EVs are affected during extreme cold temperature, causing mpgs to go down..........I will still take it compared to driving a gas-powered car since I still save way more $$$ during winter with an EV.


                              from what I read at nissan leaf forums, owners in Arizona have noticed that their battery capacity charge suffers during extreme HOT temperature. They found out that instead of getting a 100% full charge, their batteried degraded and can only get 90% full charge after a year or so. I believe Nissan will cover that for warranty, if that happens tho.

                              I expect battery degradation of EVs/hybrids after a few years, that's why I leased my Nissan Leaf. But even gas-powered cars will also degrade in efficiency anyways. Gum build-up, piston wear and tear, etc will cause the engines degradation over years....... Both cars will have their share of degradation/efficiency losses....


                              With the 2012 honda accord that I just traded for example, It gave me an average of 24mpg for my 15,000 mile/yr. With 625 gallons x $3.50 (conservatively), I'll spend at least $2,187.50/year.

                              With my 2012 Nissan leaf, I average 3.6 miles per kwh. So for 15,000 miles, I will consume 4,167 kwh. With 15 cents per kwh here in Rhode Island, that's only $625/year.
                              I will at least save $1,562.50 per year.
                              Some people who drives less aggressive than me, who averages 3.8-4.0 kwh per mile....will save more $$$. But I'm not one of those guys who drives slower than the minimum mph.

                              In addition, I don't have to spend money on oil changes/filters every 3000-5000 miles
                              EV/hybrid owners also uses their regenerative brake system to slow down the car instead of pressing the brake pedal. That prolongs changing the brake pads/rotors of the vehicle.

                              And every weekend, I leave my car at the nissan dealership to get a full charge for free, which adds even more savings


                              EVs have their pros and cons, but depends on your "lifestyle, and driving commute/habbits", it can be a very ideal vehicle to save money.

                              If I only will have one vehicle, I will NOT get an EV due to the limited driving range, and the very limited charging stations available. My family will not be able to use it and drive for 5 hours to get to PA to visit families. But since we have a Honda Pilot, and I only use my leaf for my daily commute to work/part time jobs, having an EV is ideal.

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