PA solar farm - under $1.80/W?

[bonaire]

I just read that some company owned by BP is going to do a large solar farm in PA due in 2014. The thing that caught my eye was it will be about 14MW and comes in at 1.80/W. is this even possible?

http://www.fcadc.com/2012/09/100-acre-solar-farm-planned-near-penn-turnpike-in-franklin-county/

This is well under anything I have heard in the past. I hate under-priced projects to get polical foothold or mislead. Orion is also a wind developer and this is their first large scale solar project.

[Sunking]

Maybe the panel price, but not project price. Th eland it sets on is worth more than that.

[bonaire]

Project budget says $25M and 14 MW. Land seems outside of budget, perhaps leased.

Could thin film be viable for this? That supposedly has a cheaper price per module.

It just doesn't seem possible that parts plus labor could be done this cheaply. They'll use angered posts for quick install, no cement as the farm would be possibly returned to farming decades out.

[Sunking]

Project budget says $25M and 14 MW. Land seems outside of budget, perhaps leased.

Could thin film be viable for this? That supposedly has a cheaper price per module.

It just doesn't seem possible that parts plus labor could be done this cheaply. They'll use angered posts for quick install, no cement as the farm would be possibly returned to farming decades out.

Quite possible, as Thin Film is usually the choice for this type of project. The idea is to build a plant as cheap as possible, then dump it for a quick profit. Problem is Thin Film only has a service life of about 5-10 years.

[russ]

Not setting the supports in concrete - a real shyster operation! Probably an indication of the quality of the engineering for the rest of the project.

Sounds more like a prospective owner's plan - before engineering sees it.

[Naptown]

Not setting the supports in concrete - a real shyster operation! Probably an indication of the quality of the engineering for the rest of the project.

Sounds more like a prospective owner's plan - before engineering sees it.

Your a bit out of touch and making assumptions. Most of these are using helical piers. Correct not concrete and a 5 minute per post setting time.

[russ]

Your a bit out of touch and making assumptions. Most of these are using helical piers. Correct not concrete and a 5 minute per post setting time.

Provide a price then -

Helical piers are similar to a pile it looks like - just driving a pipe into the ground - they claim to be greener than concrete which might be difficult to support.

Not all that cheap but faster and easier than concrete foundations - depending on the soil characteristics.

FAst yes - cheap I am notso sure.

[Naptown]

Provide a price then -

Helical piers are similar to a pile it looks like - just driving a pipe into the ground - they claim to be greener than concrete which might be difficult to support.

Not all that cheap but faster and easier than concrete foundations - depending on the soil characteristics.

FAst yes - cheap I am notso sure.

Price wasn't the issue. or the question. I responded to your comment claiming no concrete was a shyster operation which was entirely uncalled for and untrue. Helical or augered piers are an engineered and long proven method of foundation support. Depending on soil type they are generally less expensive than a traditional concrete foundation for this application. In many places around here they are the only option.

[bonaire]

We have clay-based soild around here. A 6-8' push-down / auguered pipe is sturdy. Other solar farms in PA are using fast-install pipes like this and the reason is they want to consider returning the land to farm down the road and removing thousands of tons of concrete footers is not economical or environmental. If you could pull the pipes out and at a minimum, recycle them (melt or re-use) then you have a more green solution.

I just wonder how they will hit this cost per Watt. Some kind of high-speed labor racking, inexpensive nearby interconnect and dirt-cheap module pricing. Maybe the higher voltage loops (isn't 1000V possible now?) Maybe they are buying out inventories of out of business module makers and self-insuring against module failure by warehousing a few thousand spares.

If they are using thin film then the utility life is short and the project is a problem since it will need replacement in 1/3 the lifespan of wafer-based silicon modules.

[Naptown]

The $1.80 a watt is feasable. At that level of purchase modules will be down at about .65 a watt inverters will run <.25 a watt and racking labor etc is not that much. Keep in mind that this is the installed cost and not what someone would pay on a retail level. I am sure land costs are not included in that price.
At this scale and behind the fence so to speak yes 1000V may be allowed on a case by case basis.
The racking system is fast, Schletter makes some good products for these applications. We just did one for a 5KW system (did not use helical piers as the scale was too small to justify) but even with hand digging and setting concrete all the racking and modules were installed by 2 men in essentially a day.

[russ]

20 panels (or less) in a day - seems to be reasonable but it would seem not much concrete was used.

Even for concrete, I would think they would use an augered hole filled with concrete - also removable as for farming 12" depth would be adequate - the balance could stay in place.

Probably more than just land is excluded -

1) any connections to the battery limits?

2) engineering?

3) permitting?

4) fencing?

5) 14 mW - there will be offices, roads - many items

I really do expect that is the price the owner talks about and not the final cost.

[bonaire]

Looks like my town here in Pennsylvania is doing a 7.2MW solar farm. Big negative to me is going to be the cost. Slated for a budget of $35M to do the 7.2MW site, that makes it about $5/Watt. It will be all ground mount. Nearby, the iron works yards stand vacant and could be used for vast amounts of simple ballast mounted arrays. Well, we will see how it turns out as work is supposed to start there any week now.

http://www.gogreencsi.com/index.php

[Wy_White_Wolf]

The land is leased

...to lease parts of three hay and crop farms...

...The investment is currently estimated at $25 million...

That would be the companies investment. Which would be Cost of project minus state and federal subsities. I wouldn't dought that the cost of project is at least double their investment.

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