Residential Energy Storage Hub
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It is just a plain ole everyday medium duty 10 Kva Dual Conversion UPS system. Like any UPS you connect the front end to a commercial AC power source. Under normal operating conditions the AC line is effectively supplying all power via the internal rectifiers. There is an optional add on Solar input and a standard Generator input. The batteries showed in the diagram are a 12 Kwh stack which they claim can support a 10 Kw load for one hour. The optional Solar input is extra, and has a max input of 10 Kw.MSEE, PEComment
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I've never seen a single UPS with a linear runtime. I've installed several APC Symmetra 16kVa double conversion systems, and not one has been linear. The efficiency of the drop as the load drops. i.e. the Symmetra units efficiency is only 55% at 4% load, where as they peak at 89.8% efficiency at 75% load.
That said - the Rosewater "HUB" marketing sheet leaves out a lot of data needed to know exactly how this would run.Comment
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Neither have I but up till no wall UPS systems used conventional Lead Acid batteries where Peukert Law applies. Peukert Law on carbon lead acid is not an issue, so that makes run times fairly linear. To be honest I guessed at it because there is little information or specs with carbon lead acid batteries to go on with respect to Peukert Law. Carbon Lead Acid batteries have very low internal resistance which is where Peukert effect is derived. The lower the resistance, the lower the effect.MSEE, PEComment
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Sinking, Derek, the green line is NOT the PbC. It is the ultrabattery and that is most certainly NOT the same thing as the PbC.
The PbC does not have a lead-carbon negative electrode like the ultrabattery.
The negative electrode in the PbC is ALL carbon and that makes a HUGE difference.
DComment
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Sinking, Derek, the green line is NOT the PbC. It is the ultrabattery and that is most certainly NOT the same thing as the PbC.
The PbC does not have a lead-carbon negative electrode like the ultrabattery.
The negative electrode in the PbC is ALL carbon and that makes a HUGE difference.
D[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Comment
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The five entities that are actively developing lead-carbon battery technology are:
- MeadWestvaco (MWV), a packaging material and container manufacturing company that is developing activated carbon additives for the lead sulfate pastes used in conventional lead-acid batteries;
- Australia’s Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO), which has developed a split-electrode lead-carbon battery that it calls the Ultrabattery;
- Japan’s Furukawa Battery (Frankfurt - FBB.F), which licensed the Ultrabattery technology from CSIRO and has successfully road tested its device for 100,000 miles in a modified Honda hybrid;
- East Penn Manufacturing, a privately held manufacturer of lead-acid batteries that is using carbon additive pastes in experimental batteries and has recently acquired an exclusive U.S. sublicense to manufacture the Ultrabattery from Furukawa; and
- Axion Power International, a small manufacturer of lead-acid batteries that has developed a formidable U.S. patent portfolio in lead-carbon battery technology that will begin commercial production later this year and has partnered with Gaia Power Technologies for a NYSERDA funded utility substation support project that was discussed in the DOE’s 2008 Peer Review.
Cycle-life test results for the MeadWestvaco and East Penn batteries with carbon-enhanced pastes are both included in the Sandia graph, as are test results for the split-electrode CSIRO-Furukawa Ultrabattery. While Axion didn’t participate in last year’s tests,
All that SPLIT ELECTRODE means is one electrode is made of Lead, and the other is made of Carbon aka PbC. Ultra Battery is just a marketing gimmick.MSEE, PEComment
- MeadWestvaco (MWV), a packaging material and container manufacturing company that is developing activated carbon additives for the lead sulfate pastes used in conventional lead-acid batteries;
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All-carbon Axion negative electrode is a game-changer
Sunking (Derek),
The principle point of failure in a lead-acid battery is the lead negative electrode. The Ultrabattery has a split negative electrode, half of which is still lead and will still experience sulfation and failure very similar to a plain old lead-acid battery.
The PbC has no lead negative electrode, it is made of activated carbon which does not sulfate.
The carbon negative electrode in the PbC is the reason it has tested to 100,000+ cycles using a test protocol jointly designed with BMW, compared to about 10,000 cycles with the best AGM battery.
Please do not take my word for it though. You can follow this link to the presentation that Dr. Enders Dickinson made for the 13th European Lead Battery Conference just last year.
"Dr Dickinson emphasized that the total absence of plate sulfation in PbC batteries, which have no-lead pure-carbon anodes, is a critical differentiator in comparisons with traditional or advanced VRLA lead-acid batteries."
DComment
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As far as I can see they are simply flogging Rosewater's unit?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Comment
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If you are referring to the Residential Energy Storage Hub:
Rosewater was involved very early in conceptualizing and defining it and is primarily responsible for marketing it and managing it from the distributor-customer perspective.
Axion Power engineered the residential-energy-hub, built the prototype and manufactures its PbC batteries including the critical activated-carbon negative electrodes which have a dedicated robotic assembly line.
For the overall product, Axion Power has stated that it may look to outside specialist companies if needed for large quantity assembly – which is obviously not the best and highest use of its advanced battery facilities and scientific/engineering staff.Comment
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Simple problem. All of Axiom claims cannot be verified. They refused to have 3rd party test. The technology exist. Three other manufactures other than Axiom offer the same technology and have had 3rd parth testing like Sandia National Labs.MSEE, PEComment
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It seems Axiom is just sticking it's fingers in many things that others have developed hoping that something pans out. Their technology changes every few months?
If they won't go to Sandia with their unit then it must either be vaporware or pure hustle.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Comment
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