New system stuck on night mode and not producing

[Andan]

New to this forum after searching for answers. We had a residential system installed that supposedly went online with PG&E in December. Being new to solar, we just watched our bills for the first couple of months before we realized that it apparently isn't generating anything.

The outfit that sold it to us, which will remain unnamed until we know more, has apparently suspended all operations due to the pandemic. A day of digging with the lender who financed it revealed that it's basically a sales front, but the city permit records revealed that the contractor was doing business as the sales front, so they're one and the same. I called the phone numbers I found. One went straight to voicemail, and the other got a residence, where a guy who matched the name on the contractor's license said he'd have their tech people call back. That was ten days ago.

Is this kind of flaky, shady stuff common in the industry? Their online consumer reviews show that solar is their primary business, but this is about the worst customer service I've ever experienced. We're paying monthly on a note for a pile of equipment that just doesn't work. Our true-up balance is up around $600, and PG&E's records show nary a watt, ever.

The weird thing is, I called one of their local competitors just to see what I could learn. They're open for business as an essential, so the pandemic excuse is just not credible. They are willing to send a tech out to troubleshoot our system and see if they can find the problem. $250 for the first hour, and $120 per hour after that.

I'm trying to educate myself and maybe fix it myself. What I've learned so far tells me that they just didn't finish the job. The inverter is a SolarEdge SE5000.

No one came out to confirm that it was working after we got the PG&E notice. No one walked us through the control display. There's no monitoring setup at all. It seems to be stuck in Night Mode, but it will show "On" now and then. It typically shows 2-3 volts of DC, and the most I've seen is about 18 volts. From what I've seen online, the DC voltage should be in the hundreds?

I'm not inexperienced with displays and menu manipulation, but I can't guess at a sequence that will let me toggle it out of Night Mode. The best I've been able to get to is "On", 18 volts, and the green "Power" led blinking.

I plan to connect the inverter to our house wi-fi modem/router with an Ethernet cable, but the SolarEdge manual is awfully cryptic about the setup procedure.

So, can anyone offer more than sympathy? If I don't hear back from the contractor. I think I'll send a demand letter by certified mail with a return receipt, then hire the competitor to have a look and send the bill to the contractor. I'm a retired attorney, so I have no compunction about recouping the expense in court.

We're heading into AC season with long, sunny days, and that true-up is going to murder us if we don't start producing. I really don't want to trash the contractor's reputation before they have a chance to make it right, but, obviously, I'm quite capable of writing a scathing review. Thanks!

[Ampster]

Have you checked the breaker to see if it is on? Give it 5 minutes to boot up and try to sync to the grid. Even at night it should sync to the grid. If it has a screen see if it provides more info. I presume if you are with PG&E you are in the north half of California?
Is the notice you got from PG&E, a Permission to Operate letter?

[Mike90250]

I'd also complain to the state contractors lic board.

If the display is active, it has AC power. See if you can find the DC disconnect and determine what state it's in, on or off.

If you are handy with a volt meter, see what the AC grid voltage is, supposed to be 240VAC + - some 5% If too high or low, the inverter won't qualify the grid as being good, and won't turn on. Bad grid voltage is more common then you think. Find a manual for your inverter online and study it, see what makes it tick.

[Andan]

Have you checked the breaker to see if it is on? Give it 5 minutes to boot up and try to sync to the grid. Even at night it should sync to the grid. If it has a screen see if it provides more info. I presume if you are with PG&E you are in the north half of California?
Is the notice you got from PG&E, a Permission to Operate letter?

Yes, I identified the inverter's breaker and tried power cycles of various duration. The notice we got from PG&E was an email, which I forwarded the same day to the contractor. It was simply notice that net energy metering through our system was good to go.

Yes, Northern California, Sacramento Valley. Gonna get hot soon. And sunny.

I feel kinda dumb for not getting on this in March, but there's been this virus thing. Everyone please stay safe.

[Andan]

If you are handy with a volt meter, see what the AC grid voltage is, supposed to be 240VAC + - some 5% If too high or low, the inverter won't qualify the grid as being good, and won't turn on. Bad grid voltage is more common then you think. Find a manual for your inverter online and study it, see what makes it tick.

The AC voltage is consistently right around 245, so that sounds about right with your variation margin. It's the DC that just isn't there. What's the fix if the grid voltage is too hot, some kind of attenuator/pad?

[Ampster]

The AC voltage is consistently right around 245, so that sounds about right with your variation margin. It's the DC that just isn't there. What's the fix if the grid voltage is too hot, some kind of attenuator/pad?

My SolarEdge currently is reading 242 volts..I will check my manual and see what the max is..I did have a Xantrex go offline because of voltage. PG&E would have to fix it. Your screen would probably show an error.
Can you get an Ethernet cable connected?

[Ampster]

A quick search of the SolarEdge site shows output voltage range of 240-264. I did not specifically see anything about input voltage. Perhaps it is in UL1747 or California Rule 21 which are specs that GT invertrrs must comply with. As i become more awake this morning, I seem to recall that my old Xantrex went offline at 254 volts. That was before Rule 21 which may be more tolerant. Your. new inverter is most likely Rule 21 compliant.
The reason I asked about Ethernet is that then your inverter could talk to SolarEdge's cloud and you could talk to tech support. You still may be able to talk to them and tell them what your screen reports.

[Lina916]

Hello,

I am new to the forum and landed here because my Solar Edge box is stuck in night mode as well. Did you ever find a remedy to your issue?

I’m really bummed out because after talking to PGE they broke the news to me that my panels have never produced any energy even though they gave a permit to operate. The trigger was the TRU UP costs were high and unfortunately the company never really gave me any guidance how to monitor the panels even though I asked multiple times - I always got the run around. I’m still getting the run around. I figure I’ll have to find another company tech to assist.
I have done all the trouble shooting and confirmed the breaker box has all the wires properly connected and have done the power reset but nothing will fix it.

Thank you

[oregon_phil]

Search this forum for SolarEdge System Not Producing - No Errors. In that case, it was a dead inverter.

[Andan]

Hello,

I am new to the forum and landed here because my Solar Edge box is stuck in night mode as well. Did you ever find a remedy to your issue?

I’m really bummed out because after talking to PGE they broke the news to me that my panels have never produced any energy even though they gave a permit to operate. The trigger was the TRU UP costs were high and unfortunately the company never really gave me any guidance how to monitor the panels even though I asked multiple times - I always got the run around. I’m still getting the run around. I figure I’ll have to find another company tech to assist.
I have done all the trouble shooting and confirmed the breaker box has all the wires properly connected and have done the power reset but nothing will fix it.

Thank you

We finally got the contractor (SunStor Solar Electric) to send a technician out on July 7, after hounding them from late April and filing complaints with the state contractors board and the finance company. He went up on the roof and found a simple wire connector called an MC4 that had not been snapped all the way home. Took him less than a half hour. Came off the roof and looked at the inverter, and we had more than 200 volts.

It's like the old-fashioned Xmas lights wired in series. If there's a single link broken in the string of panels, the whole thing won't work. Ours has worked ever since.

We're still trying to collect reimbursement for our bloated true-up, which cost us $800 last November. We've corresponded with two surety bond carriers to try to get paid back that way, but this flaky contractor stopped communicating with us after he offered $641 and we countered with $1000; $300 toward the $350 we paid in interest while the system was dead, and $700 toward the $750 accumulated true-up as of July 7. We thought it was a fair compromise, but we never heard from him again. We'll probably have to take it to small claims court.

As for the monitoring set-up, I ran an Ethernet cable from the inverter to our home wireless router, and the contractor finally sent another tech out to map and register our system with SolarEdge. After a couple of hiccups, we've had a hardwired, cloud-based monitoring system that's really quite informative. We were even able to call it up while visiting family 200 miles from home last week. It's the contractor's responsibility to set up the system with SolarEdge and then hand it off to the homeowner.

Night mode just means the rooftop array isn't producing useful voltage, such as after the sun goes down. If it's doing it in full sun, you most likely have a bad connector somewhere in the panel array. SolarEdge can help get your monitoring set up, but it's part of finishing the job you contracted for.

Don't give up. Bug your contractor and, if they ignore you, file a complaint with the Contractors State License Board. Completing a properly functioning system is a primary contractor obligation, and failing to do so puts their license at risk.

Good luck, and let this forum know how it goes.

[bcroe]

That is such a waste and a shame. And a negative check on the quality ethic here
these days. Simply connecting this simple tool to the array output to the inverter,
would have immediately shown that power to run the inverter was not available.

I used 4 of the 75W incandescents in series because my array can exceed 420VDC
in winter, some setups may be lower. Bruce Roe

PVtestLt.JPG

[Lina916]

We finally got the contractor (SunStor Solar Electric) to send a technician out on July 7, after hounding them from late April and filing complaints with the state contractors board and the finance company. He went up on the roof and found a simple wire connector called an MC4 that had not been snapped all the way home. Took him less than a half hour. Came off the roof and looked at the inverter, and we had more than 200 volts.

It's like the old-fashioned Xmas lights wired in series. If there's a single link broken in the string of panels, the whole thing won't work. Ours has worked ever since.

We're still trying to collect reimbursement for our bloated true-up, which cost us $800 last November. We've corresponded with two surety bond carriers to try to get paid back that way, but this flaky contractor stopped communicating with us after he offered $641 and we countered with $1000; $300 toward the $350 we paid in interest while the system was dead, and $700 toward the $750 accumulated true-up as of July 7. We thought it was a fair compromise, but we never heard from him again. We'll probably have to take it to small claims court.

As for the monitoring set-up, I ran an Ethernet cable from the inverter to our home wireless router, and the contractor finally sent another tech out to map and register our system with SolarEdge. After a couple of hiccups, we've had a hardwired, cloud-based monitoring system that's really quite informative. We were even able to call it up while visiting family 200 miles from home last week. It's the contractor's responsibility to set up the system with SolarEdge and then hand it off to the homeowner.

Night mode just means the rooftop array isn't producing useful voltage, such as after the sun goes down. If it's doing it in full sun, you most likely have a bad connector somewhere in the panel array. SolarEdge can help get your monitoring set up, but it's part of finishing the job you contracted for.

Don't give up. Bug your contractor and, if they ignore you, file a complaint with the Contractors State License Board. Completing a properly functioning system is a primary contractor obligation, and failing to do so puts their license at risk.

Good luck, and let this forum know how it goes.

Andan, thank you for providing a specific update for the root cause, glad to hear the issue is fixed. I have the blueprint documents of my layout and will see if there is a MC4 connector. When my panels were installed I asked if they were set up like the old school Xmas lights, if one breaks they all break. They said no, but I think that could be the case now, especially because night mode stays on 24/7.

Whenever I asked about monitoring they told me I had to buy and install a 'cell card' for the unit. I'm technical to a degree however lacking expertise knowledge and not having their support was discouraging. Even when I called PG&E and asked why my TRU UP was so much they never mentioned my system was not producing until last week. I'm still discouraged, but thanks to this forum I have been able to gather what I need to move forward with holding the contractor (Highlands Energy) accountable. I'll definitely look into the hardwiring option mentioned.

Also, with the info you provided I now have some direction with my next moves and will have to file a complaint with the state contractors board. I have a feeling I'll end up in small claims court, my TRU UP for the last two years has been over $1,000. If they pay me back it would be a miracle.

Thank you and I'll keep the forum updated.

[Andan]

The MC4 is a pretty standard item. As I understand the rigging, panels are connected with wires cut from bulk, onto which the MC4s are crimped. It's a weatherproof, positive locking connector that snaps together with a pronounced click and then requires a special tool to disconnect it. Our problem was one that hadn't been snapped together all the way.

So there might be one like that, or the crimping could be faulty. We talked to another contractor about troubleshooting our system when the installer was ignoring us, and a poorly crimped MC4 was the first thing they mentioned.

My further understanding is that the array is wired in series (so the voltage adds) with a termination at the end of the string, so panels on the inverter side of a bad connection won't partially produce because the system isn't sensing the termination. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can confirm or correct that understanding?

[oregon_phil]

Lina916 , I do not own a SolarEdge system, but would like to help if possible.

Somethings that might be help get to the root of the problem:

Did your system ever work?

What is your inverter's model number? Does it have a display?

What solar panels do you have? How many and what does your blueprint say on how they are arranged? One string of X and one string of Y?

I have read some of the HD Wave manual (guessing that's what you have) and find SolarEdge's manual to have some troubleshooting steps buried in the manual. With a little bit more information, I bet somebody on this forum can help move this issue forward towards resolution.

[Lina916]

Lina916 , I do not own a SolarEdge system, but would like to help if possible.

Somethings that might be help get to the root of the problem:

Did your system ever work?

What is your inverter's model number? Does it have a display?

What solar panels do you have? How many and what does your blueprint say on how they are arranged? One string of X and one string of Y?

I have read some of the HD Wave manual (guessing that's what you have) and find SolarEdge's manual to have some troubleshooting steps buried in the manual. With a little bit more information, I bet somebody on this forum can help move this issue forward towards resolution.

oregon_phil thank you for replying to my solar panel issue. To answer your questions:

I believe my system has never worked. The reason I think this is because I have researched two years worth of PGE statements and NetGen is '000000'. I ordered third year to see if they generated when they were initially installed.

Solar Edge SE3800H-US with display panel (night mode is lit up)
Trina Solar Panels -All Max Plus
15 panels
Blueprint:
Array 1
[x5] (N) Modules

Array 2
[x6] (N) Modules

Array 3
[x4] (N) Modules

Thank you kindly for offering to help. I tried to reset the inverter again today. I click the red switch to 0. Turn the knob to OFF then turn off at breaker box. I do see the panel lose power. When I work backwards to bring it back up I see the green light come on and the Night Mode displays. Highlands Energy said they will get back to next week. I actually got a hold of the installer but he no longer works for the company. Right away he said it must be paperwork that was not completed on PGE end. He said he'll call me tomorrow. Until then I'm all ears for suggestions and troubleshooting. I may jump on the roof this weekend to check for loose wiring.