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  • #16
    Originally posted by Esun View Post
    A 5kw doesnt produce the same as any other 5kw system.
    pretty much they do

    Originally posted by Esun View Post
    There are lots of variables that go into it like temp coefficient,
    that is only if you have a big temp coefficient difference AND a big temperature increase from 25C and even then a relatively modest production difference.
    Temp coefficient has negligible impact in cool or breezy locations

    Originally posted by Esun View Post
    efficiency,
    Actually efficiency has nothing to do with production. zip, nada.
    efficiency only has to do with the size of the PV module not production.

    Same for car engines. Efficiency has nothing to do with the power produced. It only has to do with the fuel consumed.
    Two engines both that produce 200Hp but one is more efficient, well they both still produce 200Hp, one just uses less fuel....

    Originally posted by Esun View Post
    etc. saying that is like saying a 4 door sedan is going to work the same across all makes and models.
    a 4 door sedan with a 200hp engine will have the same hp as ANY other 4door sedan with a 200hp engine (except transmission & differential inefficiencies in this stretched example)

    Originally posted by Esun View Post

    In regards to the original post. If Sp comes out with a 23% panel at mono perc price like they say they are then that would definitely be a game changer. I think they are switching to using 60 cells in a panel like everyone else instead of 96 which means shorter production time, and a bump in efficiency.
    Maybe IF they can keep costs down, which is doubtful.

    but mean while Panasonic and LG are moving forward with each generation.
    OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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    • #17
      Originally posted by jflorey2 View Post
      Ah yes. Nothing funnier (or more emblematic of our times) than an Internet wannabe who posts in a chat room to call people who post in chat rooms losers.



      Thats a very superficial and biased comment, I never called anyone a loser it was actually instigated opposite of what you are supposing. Also Ive posted a few times not 10000 so its not the pot calling the kettle black, your argument is invalid. Further I have no problem with someone posting as much as they want. Solar is a great discussion for people to bounce ideas of each other and get advice. In regards to Sunpower I understand there is plenty of people always pitching their brand heavily, but as a knee jerk reaction people develop this anti attitude as well and tear down sunpower soley and never focusing criticism on any other brand. I mean it really invokes anger in people to bring up sunpower.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Esun View Post
        Solar is a great discussion for people to bounce ideas of each other and get advice. In regards to Sunpower I understand there is plenty of people always pitching their brand heavily, but as a knee jerk reaction people develop this anti attitude as well and tear down sunpower soley and never focusing criticism on any other brand. I mean it really invokes anger in people to bring up sunpower.
        I have nothing against Sunpower as a solar producer. Indeed, I've used their cells recently for some specialized panels (panels used for mobile recharging of ebikes) because their efficiency is about the highest you can get in a single crystal silicon cell. I also have a Sunpower system on my house. (Although really that just means the panels; the inverters are rebranded Fronius inverters.)

        However, lately their customer support sucks. There are good guys and bad guys in the field of solar system installation; they are one of the bad guys.

        And if you do stick around here you will definitely hear lots of criticism of other brands. But you'd have to stick around and read such posts, not come blasting in calling people "kool aid drinkers" "egotistical, proud" "zero credibility" "zero evidence" "you forgot it all." when they disagree with you. Close your mouth and open your ears and you may learn something.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post

          pretty much they do



          that is only if you have a big temp coefficient difference AND a big temperature increase from 25C and even then a relatively modest production difference.
          Temp coefficient has negligible impact in cool or breezy locations



          Actually efficiency has nothing to do with production. zip, nada.
          efficiency only has to do with the size of the PV module not production.

          Same for car engines. Efficiency has nothing to do with the power produced. It only has to do with the fuel consumed.
          Two engines both that produce 200Hp but one is more efficient, well they both still produce 200Hp, one just uses less fuel....



          a 4 door sedan with a 200hp engine will have the same hp as ANY other 4door sedan with a 200hp engine (except transmission & differential inefficiencies in this stretched example)



          Maybe IF they can keep costs down, which is doubtful.

          but mean while Panasonic and LG are moving forward with each generation.
          Haha wow “efficiency has nothing to do with production.” You better write a letter to every Solar manufacturer and let them know they have all gone down the wrong path. It turns out there is no difference in production even if the amount of sunlight your turning to electricity is raised a few percent more and more kwh hours doesnt mean zip nada. Hmm.... yeah I dont know why the technology that Panasonic uses is special or why you bring them up. Their panel is basic n type cell with 19% efficiency that’s just doped in an amorphous layer that will degrade quicker than other materials. SP literally had a 19% panel in like 2013. They do use the 96 cell count like sp lol. LG>Panasonic for sure the neon 2 is much better than Panasonic, there many choices better than Sanyo. And you are right LG is moving on to better technology their new flagship panel the neon R is an exact copy of Sunpower back contact cells just bigger since sp’s patent expired. Why don’t you hate on LG, the LG neon R is just as expensive as sunpower watt for watt. But they did bump their product warranty to 25 years as well. The engine analogy you used is inverted we’re talking production or power, just because 2 cars are 4door sedans it doesnt mean they “produce” the same amount of horse power/energy. And a 5kw doesnt produce the same as another regardless of panels used, especially after 5-10 years. I just used the temp coefficient as one brief example of many factors. Go use virtually any major accredited solar design software and play around with the variables at similar conditions then switch efficiency or moduule type. Here’s a question for you to answer, how come you can have 2 panels with an stc rating of 300 Watts BUT their PTC rating is 10+ Watts different? Is it because the panels performed differently in a different setting? Yes that’s exactly it. Its clear when ppl have an agenda to push and just hate on SP when theres plenty of other panels to undermine.

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          • #20
            Well, LG certainly seems to be innovating with each generation (Neon, Neon2, NeonR, etc). Panasonic not so much. Essentially the same product Sanyo invented some 8-10 yrs ago.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Esun View Post
              Haha wow efficiency has nothing to do with production. You better write a letter to every Solar manufacturer and let them know they have all gone down the wrong path. It turns out there is no difference in production even if the amount of sunlight your turning to electricity is raised a few percent more and more kwh hours doesnt mean zip nada.
              You are very confused.

              Efficiency has nothing to do with production. Efficiency has to do with area required to generate a certain amount of power. In locations that are space-constrained, more efficient panels can give you more power. In locations that are NOT space constrained, less efficient panels can produce more power for the same cost.
              The engine analogy you used is inverted we're talking production or power, just because 2 cars are 4door sedans it doesnt mean they produce the same amount of horse power/energy.
              Exactly. Wouldn't you sound stupid if you said "hey, that car is really efficient, it must produce a lot of power!"

              Efficiency and energy production are not anywhere near the same thing, nor are they even closely related.
              And a 5kw doesnt produce the same as another regardless of panels used, especially after 5-10 years.
              That's right. Panels degrade at different rates. In fact, the more efficient panel may degrade faster than the less efficient panel, depending on the process used - in which case you would be better off with the less efficient panel.


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              • #22
                If you give our new member enough rope, he may hang himself. Bruce Roe

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by bcroe View Post
                  If you give our new member enough rope, he may hang himself. Bruce Roe
                  I am watching him. Rope is ready.

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                  • #24
                    I'd suggest Esun come up with some real logic and experience to support his claims or he be prevented from spreading hearsay and what's little more than advertising and marketing hype.

                    Opinion is one thing and this is one place for it, particularly if it diverges from the mainstream. Everyone has opinions and every one is entitled to them. But having an opinion says nothing about whether or not that opinion fits reality and practice, or if spreading loosely formed opinions can cause harm or perpetuate the spread of incorrect or dangerous or just plain wrong information.

                    From where I sit, and not simply because I disagree with him, Esun's opinions look uninformed and lacking the benefit of education and experience. As such, spreading such uninformed and inexperienced information around is at worst dangerous, and at least inconsiderate and rude. He's acting as a shill, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, be kind, and speculate he's unaware of acting as a de facto shill and call simply call him unaware and out of his depth, and due mostly to what looks to me to be the ignorance of youth, coupled with an overinflated sense of his own importance.

                    Bottom line : For me, treating opinions like gospel or truth as Esun seems to be doing is, IMO only, a deceptive practice.

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                    • #25
                      Esun

                      For some reasons your posts are being cut off after only a few words. Try not to cut and paste your post or use character like an '.

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