Avoid Sunpower due to their uncertain future?

[J.P.M.]

A thin sheet isn't going to have significant effect on the heat dissipation. What matters is increasing the surface area (fins) or
a more emissive coating. This while maintaining or increasing air flow. Bruce Roe

The whole premise of a heat sink (if that's even the correct term to be used here) on a PV panel is B.S. Look at the panel weight. A "sink" implies mass - a lot of it. Also, "fins" increase panel size - most probably panel thickness, and by a fair amount if they are to be effective, as well as increasing weight.

At this time, neither heat sinks or fins on PV panels are either a practical or cost effective improvement.

Looks like RiFi is confused. I thought the cost effective argument I posted would put a stake in the logic of buying Sunpower without getting into a discussion of poster confusion about design.

[SunEagle]

The whole premise of a heat sink (if that's even the correct term to be used here) on a PV panel is B.S. Look at the panel weight. A "sink" implies mass - a lot of it. Also, "fins" increase panel size - most probably panel thickness, and by a fair amount if they are to be effective, as well as increasing weight.

At this time, neither heat sinks or fins on PV panels are either a practical or cost effective improvement.

Looks like RiFi is confused. I thought the cost effective argument I posted would put a stake in the logic of buying Sunpower without getting into a discussion of poster confusion about design.

There is something called a "sandwich panel" which has the ability to run water through it. The water picks up the heat in the panel and can be used through an ex-changer for hot water in the home. The water is also supposed to cool the solar panels thus improving the efficiency due to less heat.

I am not sure if these panels are still in a research lab or can be purchased but they may find a market if they are not too expensive and actually work as predicted.

[J.P.M.]

There is something called a "sandwich panel" which has the ability to run water through it. The water picks up the heat in the panel and can be used through an ex-changer for hot water in the home. The water is also supposed to cool the solar panels thus improving the efficiency due to less heat.

I am not sure if these panels are still in a research lab or can be purchased but they may find a market if they are not too expensive and actually work as predicted.

If they're on the market, I'd sure like to know about it. My guess is while it may have the capability of having a fluid put through it, it's probably more of a gimmick and or not ready for prime time.

From what I've seen with respect to the knowledgeability of PV folks with respect to heat exchanger design, I'm not real hopeful of a fit for purpose outcome anytime soon. Good HX designers know better in terms of finding/creating cost effective applications, and at this time, PV modules ain't one of 'em. Maybe the stuff of white collar welfare masquerading as masters' theses for grad students, or B.S. or something to rip off the solar ignorant. Until I see/know different, it's a scam or shoddy product.

[SunEagle]

If they're on the market, I'd sure like to know about it. My guess is while it may have the capability of having a fluid put through it, it's probably more of a gimmick and or not ready for prime time.

From what I've seen with respect to the knowledgeability of PV folks with respect to heat exchanger design, I'm not real hopeful of a fit for purpose outcome anytime soon. Good HX designers know better in terms of finding/creating cost effective applications, and at this time, PV modules ain't one of 'em. Maybe the stuff of white collar welfare masquerading as masters' theses for grad students, or B.S. or something to rip off the solar ignorant. Until I see/know different, it's a scam or shoddy product.

I went back to find the article. It claims the Solar Sandwich is a new product from a group called Roadrunner Solar Corp. I also take something like this info with a little pessimism but the earlier post about heat sinks reminded me about it so I mentioned it here.

[sensij]

I went back to find the article. It claims the Solar Sandwich is a new product from a group called Roadrunner Solar Corp. I also take something like this info with a little pessimism but the earlier post about heat sinks reminded me about it so I mentioned it here.

They have raised $700 so far in the first week on IndieGogo.

[SunEagle]

They have raised $700 so far in the first week on IndieGogo.

Shoot. I guess I am being as bad as some other people here on the forum about posting stupid kick start agendas.

Sorry for the mistake and thank you sensij for doing more investigating on the subject.

[J.P.M.]

Shoot. I guess I am being as bad as some other people here on the forum about posting stupid kick start agendas.

Sorry for the mistake and thank you sensij for doing more investigating on the subject.

That whole thing and site looks like B.S. to me, plain & simple.

[RiFl]

Wow ! I had to go look that one up. Stop It.
Think about it for a minute, do SP panels have an array of heat fins somewhere ? No. So copper is not used as heat sink, It's used as a good electrical conductor. Most panels use aluminum metalization. Cheaper, but more internal loss than copper. Most good conventional panels have a 20 year warranty, SP is how many more years ? for how much more cost ?

https://us.sunpower.com/why-sunpower/high-efficiency-solar-technology/

I just posted what I had read. Copper is used as a heatsink in a lot of electronic devices. If it's not being used as a heatsink in SunPower panels then the article I read was inaccurate. It claimed that the copper helps to reduce heat-induced degradation in the panels. It also said another company is pursuing aluminum for the same purpose but that aluminum may not be as effective.

[J.P.M.]

I just posted what I had read. Copper is used as a heatsink in a lot of electronic devices. If it's not being used as a heatsink in SunPower panels then the article I read was inaccurate. It claimed that the copper helps to reduce heat-induced degradation in the panels. It also said another company is pursuing aluminum for the same purpose but that aluminum may not be as effective.

Sounds like you may be under some confusion. A heat sink is something used to store heat or to moderate the rate of temperature change in a device, or both, usually in a (hopefully) reversible way. As the term is correctly used in engineering, the thermal conductivity of a heat sink is largely and usually immaterial to the heat sink design. If it is, it's usually because large temp. changes and or large heat transfer rates are required. In such cases, fluids are used rather than solids. The thermal mass of the heat sink material is a major design consideration. For example, the water in a domestic water heating system is a heat sink. Using copper as heat sink material or medium when that material needs to be a solid is usually not done for the simple reason of cost, except for small devices. Other materials are as good for storage purposes for a lot less $$. There may be some benefit if a design combines a heat sink and a heat exchanger, but, those would need to be pretty small to get past the copper cost hump - a lot smaller than a PV panel. Using copper as a heat sink is somewhat similar to using it for a ballast in a ship. It'll work, but so will rocks or scrap iron for less $$.

A heat exchanger, on the other hand, is a device that transfers heat from one fluid to another or between a solid and a fluid. If a fin type heat exchanger is used to cool a PV panel for example, that is an example of a solid (the panel) to fluid (air) heat exchanger.

The Opposite to a heat sink, the thermal conductivity of the HX material is very important or at least the (thermal conductivity * surface area) product is important, so copper is often the material of choice if the costs can be accommodated, or if other, less expensive material cannot be used for any number of reasons. It's also usually better to keep things in HX's as low mass as possible for fluid mechanical, heat transfer and Thermodynamic considerations as well, while still meet safety and design mandates.

When it comes to using what is actually a heat exchanger for the purpose of increasing the output of a PV panel by lowering its operating temperature, the science is highly developed. There is not much that's new under the sun. It's all heat transfer technology - nothing fancy. I've got a bookshelf full of the stuff. The heat transfer technology in use today has been around for > 100 years. The big trick with respect to PV applications is to make it cost effective. A slightly smaller but practical consideration is that most folks who what to improve solar efficiencies by using heat transfer technology are mostly clueless about how to do it in a safe, fit for purpose, durable serviceable and buildable way that actually works, and then do so in a way that is cost effective.

Either the article you read is inaccurate, which is likely if it's similar to the stuff I've seen, and/or you misunderstood it, and/or you read too much into it. I've seen articles and advert. stuff that does indeed misuse the terms as they are used in engineering, and I bet written by someone who doesn't know much about what they are writing about. I'd be careful about taking what I read at face value.

Bottom line: Solar panels have no need for a heat sink. As a matter of fact, a heat sink may have a slight negative effect on performance depending on how it's used and the duty the PV system is expected to meet. On the other hand, PV panels may possibly be able to get some benefit from cooling devices, often of the type that use fin surfaces as a part of a heat exchanger design, not unlike the cooling fins in, for example a lot of inverters. The challenge is to do it in a safe, effective, fit for purpose and cost effective manner. achieving the first 3 can be done now. The fourth is still down the road.

[SunEagle]

That whole thing and site looks like B.S. to me, plain & simple.

After seeing the site I agree. Just a ploy to get your money.