The Boom Gets Lowered On Residential Solar In Arizona

[Ian S]

You have to admit that it makes some sense for them to charge you for the use of their almost infinite virtual battery.

I agree with this and think that approach would fairer. It would be easy to do as the smart meters used already account for what you've stored. It would be a clearcut cost for a clearcut benefit and issues of fairness would go away at least until you try to determine what a fair storage charge would be.

[inetdog]

Not with SRP. Only new solar users get the grid fee added. With SRP, all solar customers under contract before Dec 8th 2014 are grandfathered for 20 years so they should only pay the overall 3.9% rate increase that all customers got but not the new connection fee or the "demand" feature. New solar customers will get the additional monthly grid fee plus the "demand" multiplier that is predicted to add $50-$80 a month to a typical solar household.


As expected, the other local utility, APS, just proposed quadrupling their fixed "grid" fees for only solar customers. They asked for $50 last year but only got $5. Now they are back asking again since SRP was so successful with their solar increases.

You have to admit that it makes some sense for them to charge you for the use of their almost infinite virtual battery.

[azdave]

So, is the bill structure changing for everybody? Does everybody pay $50 a month for the grid and a lower KWh for what they consume.

Not with SRP. Only new solar users get the grid fee added. With SRP, all solar customers under contract before Dec 8th 2014 are grandfathered for 20 years so they should only pay the overall 3.9% rate increase that all customers got but not the new connection fee or the "demand" feature. New solar customers will get the additional monthly grid fee plus the "demand" multiplier that is predicted to add $50-$80 a month to a typical solar household.


As expected, the other local utility, APS, just proposed quadrupling their fixed "grid" fees for only solar customers. They asked for $50 last year but only got $5. Now they are back asking again since SRP was so successful with their solar increases.

[JCP]

So, is the bill structure changing for everybody? Does everybody pay $50 a month for the grid and a lower KWh for what they consume?

Otherwise, I see that Sunking has not changed, as prickly (and a bit racist) as ever.

[azdave]

Dave I just started producing and picked the 3 - 6 TOU rate. Is this the one you were going to change from ?
Can I ask why ?
I thought that plan would allow solar to provide power during the on-peak rate time and any other power I used would then be on the off-peak.

Thanks for any info.

I was on the E-27 plan for the last 15 years before solar and just stayed on that when I went to solar where it's peak from 1-8 pm weekdays in the summer and 5-9am and 5-9pm in the winter. You can only change plans once a year. Since SRP won't let you share power banked from on-peak to off-peak and vice-versa, I was banking a ton of off peak that I couldn't possibly use before April when they reset the account to zero (and pay you little cash for the reserve).

I didn't think they would let me change plans with the new rules at SRP but after a call yesterday (because I was grandfathered to the old rules) I am now on Basic E-23 service. Maybe in a really hot July or August I might have to buy a few dollars worth of power but I'm okay with that in order to get away from all of the timed devices and having to skip doing laundry until late at night. Since November I've bought very little on-peak energy but banked about a full months worth of off-peak and it will be much more by the end of April when they zero me out.

My system faces SSE so I could not get the best peak production in the late afternoon like they would prefer for new installs. What really decided it to go to Basic is the confirmation that I will almost always produce more power than I need. My best plan was to move to basic where it's all the same 24 hours a day. It will be nice to not worry about when I do laundry or having to wait until 8 PM to set the A/C down to 80 in the summer so I can sleep. I'll still be frugal with my energy use because my goal will always be to break even but now I can do it without the time of day concern.

If your panels only produce part of the total you require then TOU can be used to your advantage. You want your panels generating as much as possible during the peak hours in the summer and then buy cheaper off-peak power as needed from the utility. This benefits both you and them. That is why they want to force solar users into that specific TOU plan.

[deputybubba]

Getting back on topic...


With the recent overall SRP rate increase and a new "demand" fee applied only to residential on-site generation customers, SRP also now forces all customers with on-site generation into a single TOU plan (E-27). If you go solar now with SRP you don't have to worry about what price plan to choose.

I am lucky that I was grandfathered with my older install. I'm pretty sure I'm locked into my old TOU plan now for 20 years which while better than the new one I was just getting ready to change to the Basic plan in order to make the best use of the power I'm banking.

Dave I just started producing and picked the 3 - 6 TOU rate. Is this the one you were going to change from ?
Can I ask why ?
I thought that plan would allow solar to provide power during the on-peak rate time and any other power I used would then be on the off-peak.

Thanks for any info.

[SunEagle]

Getting back on topic...


With the recent overall SRP rate increase and a new "demand" fee applied only to residential on-site generation customers, SRP also now forces all customers with on-site generation into a single TOU plan (E-27). If you go solar now with SRP you don't have to worry about what price plan to choose.

I am lucky that I was grandfathered with my older install. I'm pretty sure I'm locked into my old TOU plan now for 20 years which while better than the new one I was just getting ready to change to the Basic plan in order to make the best use of the power I'm banking.

Looks like you got lucky. I hope it works out for you and the politics doesn't force a change in the SRP rate sometime in the future.

[azdave]

Getting back on topic...


With the recent overall SRP rate increase and a new "demand" fee applied only to residential on-site generation customers, SRP also now forces all customers with on-site generation into a single TOU plan (E-27). If you go solar now with SRP you don't have to worry about what price plan to choose.

I am lucky that I was grandfathered with my older install. I'm pretty sure I'm locked into my old TOU plan now for 20 years which while better than the new one I was just getting ready to change to the Basic plan in order to make the best use of the power I'm banking.

[SunEagle]

Did you just go ahead and take the TAX hit on 401K conversion? I hear you on ROTH, best game in town.

I was able to roll the 401k into the Roth in multiple installments so didn't have to pay any tax. The Roth has been doing a little be better then the Annuity but I have no plans on touching that for another 6 years.

[Sunking]

Currently no longer have 401k.

Did you just go ahead and take the TAX hit on 401K conversion? I hear you on ROTH, best game in town.

[SunEagle]

The irony is if you have a company 401K, you own utility stock. No portfolio should be without utility stock. Recession proof, guaranteed profit margin that pays dividends. What is not to like? I own some in both 401 and Roth. One of the very few buy and hold stocks left on the market.

Currently no longer have 401k. Just about all of my investments are in a Roth or an Annuity. Still there are some utility components in both those investments.

So I guess I own a "piece of the Grid".

[Sunking]

Of course if you have invested in the POCO stocks and are also a customer then that might have a personal dilemma as to who is the "bad guy".

The irony is if you have a company 401K, you own utility stock. No portfolio should be without utility stock. Recession proof, guaranteed profit margin that pays dividends. What is not to like? I own some in both 401 and Roth. One of the very few buy and hold stocks left on the market.

[SunEagle]

That conflict you write of has always been there in one form or another. It's just business - or life. The POCOs are not evil monsters by nature all the time any more than consumers of the POCO's product are universally self centered, wastefully indulgent, spoiled children - although it seems at times that each is often viewed that way by the other, perhaps with a kernel of truth to both views.

POCOs are doing what they believe is the best for their shareholders/owners. IMO, most could do a lot better in the PR dept. Customers are doing the easier of either blaming someone else (the POCO) for the consequences their (high) electrical use, or using less of the POCO's product. By the amount of bitching about how customers feel they're getting screwed vs. the amount of discussion about how to reduce an electric bill, it looks like it's probably still easier to blame someone else for one's ills than to turn off a light.

I agree with you and Sunking.

I was trying to state (and probably failed) that In My Opinion, it is in everyone's best interest to come to an agreement that is acceptable with both the POCO and it's customers.

Although what is perceived by the customers (as you pointed out) is that the POCO has a primary motivation which is in direct "conflict" with the customer and therefore they are considered greedy evil monsters. While in reality they are just business people that are in a competitive investment world.

Of course if you have invested in the POCO stocks and are also a customer then that might have a personal dilemma as to who is the "bad guy".

[Sunking]

That conflict you write of has always been there in one form or another. It's just business - or life. The POCOs are not evil monsters by nature all the time any more than consumers of the POCO's product are universally self centered, wastefully indulgent, spoiled children - although it seems at times that each is often viewed that way by the other, perhaps with a kernel of truth to both views.

POCOs are doing what they believe is the best for their shareholders/owners. IMO, most could do a lot better in the PR dept. Customers are doing the easier of either blaming someone else (the POCO) for the consequences their (high) electrical use, or using less of the POCO's product. By the amount of bitching about how customers feel they're getting screwed vs. the amount of discussion about how to reduce an electric bill, it looks like it's probably still easier to blame someone else for one's ills than to turn off a light.

Well said.

[J.P.M.]

SRP is looking out for itself trying to get the co-generators to produce more and use less during peak usage times like the afternoon. That is why they are asking for the West panel orientation. I think they are giving some type of reduced rate as an incentive to those co-gens that provided more power back at peak times.

IMO finding a middle ground where the POCO and customer is happy should reduce some stress. Unfortunately in the end the POCO is trying to make as much money as possible and the customer is trying to save as much as possible. There will always be some type of conflict with the two different priorities.

That conflict you write of has always been there in one form or another. It's just business - or life. The POCOs are not evil monsters by nature all the time any more than consumers of the POCO's product are universally self centered, wastefully indulgent, spoiled children - although it seems at times that each is often viewed that way by the other, perhaps with a kernel of truth to both views.

POCOs are doing what they believe is the best for their shareholders/owners. IMO, most could do a lot better in the PR dept. Customers are doing the easier of either blaming someone else (the POCO) for the consequences their (high) electrical use, or using less of the POCO's product. By the amount of bitching about how customers feel they're getting screwed vs. the amount of discussion about how to reduce an electric bill, it looks like it's probably still easier to blame someone else for one's ills than to turn off a light.