Is the Solar Industry in Germany Losing Its Shine

[Jason]

Germany has been known as the gold standard for installing panels and producing solar energy. Forget that Germany is at approximately the same latitude as Alaska. It has installed about 30 gigawatts of solar capacity, which is impressive considering that the juggernaut of solar installations in the U.S. has managed a paltry 6.4 gigawatts, tiny by comparison. Everything sounds sweet for the solar industry in Germany, right? Possibly not. The huge growth has caused some problems, very different in nature but nonetheless problems. The first problem is that the work for installers is now beginning to dry up. The second problem is that competition has become even more intense and solar energy parts manufacturers will face even more severe competition. The other problem to hit the news in Germany is the effect on utilities.

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[russ]

Massive fubar!

[Sunking]

SNAFU is a good word for it and Solar will fail. Right now the name of the game since it started is milk as much money as you can while the getting is good before the public wakes up and realizes they have been had.

[Naptown]

On the other hand this problem may lead to more cost efficient storage methods.

[Ian S]

On the other hand this problem may lead to more cost efficient storage methods.

Yup. Where there's a will, there's a way.

[russ]

Yup. Where there's a will, there's a way.

Lots of will but even more in the way of technical and economic roadblocks.

[Patricky]

I'm not surprised that Germany's solar industry losing its shine. In comparison with China where ecostandards are much lower, Germany has no chances because producing of solar panels no matter people say is too hazardous. In Germany people are concerned and understand that it's too expensive and absolutely disadvantageous to invest in solar or some other alternative sources of energy. It seems to me it's more profitable and reliable to invest in technologies that allow more effective processing of oil and gas and increase their effective output. These days we got enough of these resources but we follow some trendy course and rush for clean energy, which is not that clean, and waste billions we could spend for some other more important projects.

[SunEagle]

I'm not surprised that Germany's solar industry losing its shine. In comparison with China where ecostandards are much lower, Germany has no chances because producing of solar panels no matter people say is too hazardous. In Germany people are concerned and understand that it's too expensive and absolutely disadvantageous to invest in solar or some other alternative sources of energy. It seems to me it's more profitable and reliable to invest in technologies that allow more effective processing of oil and gas and increase their effective output. These days we got enough of these resources but we follow some trendy course and rush for clean energy, which is not that clean, and waste billions we could spend for some other more important projects.

And yet not only does the Germane government invest in solar so do a lot of the population so your statement about the Germane people is not correct.

The big problem with Germany is that once they close down their last Nuclear reactor they will be forced to purchase a lot more electricity from outside their country when they can't produce it using solar. Big mistake on their part.

[Sunking]

The big problem with Germany is that once they close down their last Nuclear reactor they will be forced to purchase a lot more electricity from outside their country when they can't produce it using solar. Big mistake on their part.

Amen and that is the big lie about solar and wind. For each watt of solar, you have to build a conventional watt of power generation to replace it.

[Ian S]

Amen and that is the big lie about solar and wind. For each watt of solar, you have to build a conventional watt of power generation to replace it.

I don't think that's the case for solar here in Arizona. The day before my system was connected, APS already had the generation capacity to supply my existing (pre-solar) needs during daylight hours. The day after my solar hookup, I'm using less power from the grid during daylight but APS still has the same amount of daytime generating capacity they had the day before. Now they just use it less and save on fuel for it.

Your claim would make more sense if you were building an entire system from scratch but in Arizona, we already have full conventional existing capacity and are adding solar to it.

[goingoffgrid530]

I don't see any of these "problems" listed in the article as relevant.

1. No more installation jobs? So what - they will find other jobs and when it’s time to replace panels and batteries, they will come back. No biggie, happens all the time.
2. Competition? Since when is this bad for an industry? Ever heard of capitalism?
3. Utilities straining? - Who cares, innovate or move on. There will be backup power regardless of what they shut down.

Sounds like a biased article that was improperly titled to me. I may not understand solar that well - but this is normal industry turnover mechanics.

[SunEagle]

I don't think that's the case for solar here in Arizona. The day before my system was connected, APS already had the generation capacity to supply my existing (pre-solar) needs during daylight hours. The day after my solar hookup, I'm using less power from the grid during daylight but APS still has the same amount of daytime generating capacity they had the day before. Now they just use it less and save on fuel for it.

Your claim would make more sense if you were building an entire system from scratch but in Arizona, we already have full conventional existing capacity and are adding solar to it.

If you don't understand how adding more solar eventually puts a strain on the existing non renewable generating capacity then you really don't have a clue concerning solar.

You can't use your small little pv system to make a statement that the Utility was not affected. You have to look all of those little system together to determine how much is affected.

Just take it face value when I say that the Utilities will have to build generating capacity to match every watt generated using renewable generating means. This is because solar and wind it is not a consistent source of energy but the public wants no interruption so the energy must come from somewhere else.

[Ian S]

If you don't understand how adding more solar eventually puts a strain on the existing non renewable generating capacity then you really don't have a clue concerning solar.

You can't use your small little pv system to make a statement that the Utility was not affected. You have to look all of those little system together to determine how much is affected.

Just take it face value when I say that the Utilities will have to build generating capacity to match every watt generated using renewable generating means. This is because solar and wind it is not a consistent source of energy but the public wants no interruption so the energy must come from somewhere else.

No, I won't take it at face value. It's an extraordinary claim when you think about especially with regard to solar here in Arizona. You need to explain in detail the flaw in my reasoning. Of course the utility was affected: I'm taking less from the grid than I was before but the utility has not changed its generation capacity: it was able to supply me and the rest of their customers prior to my solar installation so why on earth would it need to add additional capacity to supply us after my solar when I'm actually drawing less from the grid?! BTW, the argument scales however large you want: it can be my system or hundreds like it.

Now I have searched for a detailed explanation and have not found one. Since you're so certain, it should be easy for you to provide references. And I want technical ones not just handwaving by some Joe Blow. Thanks.

[bonaire]

Contact FERC and your state energy commission for details. They have complete answers. small solar grid tied is not regulated while large solar generators are. There is more to it than a watt for watt standby as they state.

http://www.ferc.gov/industries/electric/indus-act/integration-renew.asp

[SunEagle]

No, I won't take it at face value. It's an extraordinary claim when you think about especially with regard to solar here in Arizona. You need to explain in detail the flaw in my reasoning. Of course the utility was affected: I'm taking less from the grid than I was before but the utility has not changed its generation capacity: it was able to supply me and the rest of their customers prior to my solar installation so why on earth would it need to add additional capacity to supply us after my solar when I'm actually drawing less from the grid?! BTW, the argument scales however large you want: it can be my system or hundreds like it.

Now I have searched for a detailed explanation and have not found one. Since you're so certain, it should be easy for you to provide references. And I want technical ones not just handwaving by some Joe Blow. Thanks.

It is a shame that some people can't be convinced without a list of scientific data instead of accepting facts from a Joe Blow.

My credentials. During the mid 70's at the University of Delaware I was involved with doing research on Cadmium Sulfide solar cells and ended up co-publishing a paper with the National Science Foundation concerning sheet resistivity with respect to cell efficiency. I currently am involved with a project concerning a 1.12 megawatt solar pv array system in Nevada.

For the last 38 years I have been and Electrical Engineer doing power distribution designs for all different type of Manufacturing plants and municipal Sewage and Water treatment plants. I have been a Project Engineer for multimillion capital projects involving data centers, roof shingle, steel castings and juice manufacturing plants. I was a Manager for 5 years over 25 Electricians that maintained a plants 4160volt power distribution system.

I have worked with dozens of Utilities supplying power to these plants ranging in voltages from the 5000 to 15000 range. Along the way I have developed strong relations with Utility Generating Plant Managers and Directors. That includes smaller 6 megawatt co-generating facilities.

In short I understand what is required to keep the lights on. So if you chose not to believe me when I tell you something then that is your choice and maybe your loss.