How many solar panels?

[Sergio]

I know that the question is vague, but I only need a relative answer. The short question is: How many acres of solar panels would I need to put up in order to generate $5,000 a month in revenue? Assuming that I'm in New York.

My friend is about to lose his property to the bank. I want to put together a business proposal that would entice investors (since neither of us have enough to buy acres of solar panels). He has about 100 acres & over 50 acres of just flat land. Maybe another 25 usable acres beyond that. Could this be enough?

[Naptown]

I know that the question is vague, but I only need a relative answer. The short question is: How many acres of solar panels would I need to put up in order to generate $5,000 a month in revenue? Assuming that I'm in New York.

My friend is about to lose his property to the bank. I want to put together a business proposal that would entice investors (since neither of us have enough to buy acres of solar panels). He has about 100 acres & over 50 acres of just flat land. Maybe another 25 usable acres beyond that. Could this be enough?

More than enough.
Who will buy the power remains to be seen.
But to give you an idea of what that would generate if you could sell the power at say $0.08 Per KWH
and basing your location on say mid state (Syracuse) would take about 700KW
Using 250Watt modules it would take 2800 panels each at 17 square feet triple that to allow or inter row spacing. so figure
51 square feet per panel *2800 = 142800 ft² or about 3.5 acres.
Economics figure in roughly at $4-$5 a watt so you would need an investment of 2.8-3.5 million.
This is if you could sell the electricity for that amount and never see a return on the investment.
Costs do not take into account any incentives or Srec income you may be able to get.

[Sergio]

Thanks! There's a lot of solid data here that gives me a better idea about the questions I should be asking. There is one thing I don't understand. Or maybe I don't understand the unit of measurement?

It seems that you're saying that this unit of 2800 panels would yield 700KW/H & if I were to get the grid to buy it at 8¢ per KW/H, I would actually raise $5600 in revenue per hour. Setting aside the likelihood of realism of the price or the proportion that they would buy, this calculation is probably off. How is it actually calculated?

[Sergio]

Also, I'm not sure how to reconcile such a large difference so I just have to ask again.

I've seen many similarly priced panels on websites. I wouldn't necessarily buy from eBay, but I trust them as a source. This seller (http://item.ebay.com/170834514195) has 100 panels for $30K+1.4K for shipping. If I were to buy 2800 units, even if I didn't get a discount, I would pay $879,200.

Is there a substantial difference between these panels & the ones you've mentioned?

[inetdog]

Thanks! There's a lot of solid data here that gives me a better idea about the questions I should be asking. There is one thing I don't understand. Or maybe I don't understand the unit of measurement?

It seems that you're saying that this unit of 2800 panels would yield 700KW/H & if I were to get the grid to buy it at 8¢ per KW/H, I would actually raise $5600 in revenue per hour. Setting aside the likelihood of realism of the price or the proportion that they would buy, this calculation is probably off. How is it actually calculated?

Kw is power, how fast the energy is being produced. Kw times Hours (KwH) is the total energy, which is what the utility pays you for.
A 1000Kw plant will produce 1000KwH per hour. So if you have 4 sun hours, that is roughly 4000KwH per day.

Naptown did all of the arithmetic for you to come up with the dollars per month that you requested.

Note that Kw/H or Kilowatts per hour is a bogus measurement for this case.

[Sergio]

Naptown did all of the arithmetic for you to come up with the dollars per month that you requested.

Agreed & I am grateful for it. However, based on those calculations it seems that the revenue raised would be $5600 per hour (70000 x 0.8) which seems unlikely.

Obviously it's impossible to predict the amount they would buy & also impossible to know with certainty the price they would pay. The question I have though is; is the math correct? Is that how it is calculated?

[inetdog]

Agreed & I am grateful for it. However, based on those calculations it seems that the revenue raised would be $5600 per hour (70000 x 0.8) which seems unlikely.

Obviously it's impossible to predict the amount they would buy & also impossible to know with certainty the price they would pay. The question I have though is; is the math correct? Is that how it is calculated?

No, you do not.

Naptown stated 700Kw capacity of panels. Using top of the head numbers rather than the more accurate ones used by Naptown, that would be 700 x 4 = 2800 KwH per day. (Number of Kw times number of hours) .
Multiply by the price that you might get, and you have 2800 x .08 = 224 dollars per day. And since the panels will cheerfully work a 7 day week, you multiply by 30 to get the dollars per month. 224 x 30 = 6,720 dollars per month.
The difference between my example numbers and Naptown's is that I did not use correct numbers for the number of hours per day that the panels will be producing full power. (Not the number of hours of sunlight, since some hours are better than others.) And your return would be high in summer months and lower in winter months, so the monthly income will not be constant. You need to bank some during the Summer to pay your investors in the Winter.

Two of your problems in arithmetic were taking the price per KwH as $.80 instead of $.08 and multiplying that by Watts instead of Kilowatts, for an error of roughly 1,000,000%. Be sure to get an accountant to help you prepare your Prospectus.

[Sunking]

The other problem you would have is you would have to be a licensed Co-Generator. That means a Enviromental Impact Study, several million in permit fees and court cost. Then you will need a Professional Design Firm to do all the design and over see all the construction, and their fees likew mine will be cost plus 15% of the total construction cost. Rich made an error at his $4-$5 watt figure because he is estimating residential grade equipment. It is going to be more like $10/watt. You will also have to have a licensed engineer and skilled labor to be employed full time to run a Co-Generation plant as it is required to have the plant license.

And the final insult to injury is since you are a Co-Generator you can only sell the electricity at market price only when and if needed if ever. You local Co-Generator down the street with a Natural Gas Peaker-Plant would under bid you every time and sell his product for a profit.

[peakbagger]

Sunking was tad bit negative on his post. The rate you get is highly dependent upon what the local utility has to be pay. In some states, there is renewable portfolio standard where the utilities have to buy a certain percentage of their power from renewable sources like solar. In theory you may get a premium for power. In those states people are lined up to do projects although there is less demand this year as a key federal incentive went away last year. In areas without solar incentives, you are at the mercy of the regional grid operator and the price you will get paid may not cover your interest costs. As Sunking mentioned, there are substantial hurdles to overcome to get licensed and approved and that could take years and require upfront investment.

In most power projects you will need to have at least 20 % of your own equity in the project and given the lack of cash this would be a major issue. Realistically, barring some unusual local incentives, its was a good dream but it wont save the property.

[Naptown]

The other problem you would have is you would have to be a licensed Co-Generator. That means a Enviromental Impact Study, several million in permit fees and court cost. Then you will need a Professional Design Firm to do all the design and over see all the construction, and their fees likew mine will be cost plus 15% of the total construction cost. Rich made an error at his $4-$5 watt figure because he is estimating residential grade equipment. It is going to be more like $10/watt. You will also have to have a licensed engineer and skilled labor to be employed full time to run a Co-Generation plant as it is required to have the plant license.

And the final insult to injury is since you are a Co-Generator you can only sell the electricity at market price only when and if needed if ever. You local Co-Generator down the street with a Natural Gas Peaker-Plant would under bid you every time and sell his product for a profit.

Actually here is a 1MW system we recently completed the DC side of the system on. We only did the DC wiring as a sub not the entire project.
came in at about $4.00 a watt total turnkey.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/breaking/bs-md-co-solar-project-20120424,0,5298109.story

the project was Solar world 240's, Schneider inverters and recombiners, and Schletter racking
We put 35000 feet of #10 USE2 in that project.

[russ]

Rich - That wouldn't include any of the legal stuff most likely.

The utility will be buying at wholesale rates - low.

The only hope would be if your state has some green power scheme where you get paid high rates for so called 'green' power.