Replacing solar panels - thoughts?

[desmo907]

I have a 5.25kW system installed in 2012. It has paid for itself ~4 years ago (I usually never use more than I generate and connection cost to grid is only $10/mo).
I am now using a bit more electricity with more a/c and PHEV charging, and was thinking of expanding the system (as I have room to extend as I run 3 rows of 7 panels so could add another column or 2 of 3 panels each) but then I thought it may be just easier/wiser to replace my old panels (and then I could match them - see below). I run netmetering so that what i generate goes backto the grid, banked, and I live off that. If I have surplus in March, they credit my account (pay me for X amount per kW) and I start from 0 again.

The panels I have are Phono Onyx 250w dark (21 total) mounted on a unirack (Solarmount) and each has an enPhase Micro 215 (though a few have been replaced under warranty with the IQ7 model). 3 of the Phonos have been replaced also (as 2 had a bad diode) with 3 Hyundia 250 panels (they were the closest in color the installed could find as there were no Phonos to be found).

I notice that panel technology has increased to ~400w and wonder if changing all 21 would be a good route. I suspect it would generate much more electricity (and better value for the home that I may sell in a few years). I don't want to go overboard on price so just a good quality panel would suffice, but suspect there would be some labor cost to replace. Browing the web is overwhelming with prices all over the place... suspect I would get a quote from a reliable installer...but spending ~$250+/panel would probably not be worth the effort in my situation.

Just curious if I would need to have any other part of my system updated... such as wiring, breakers, etc. and does that depend on the watts of the panel I choose....

And what does one do with older panels (sell, recycle, etc.)?

[J.P.M.]

Some thoughts:

1.) 400 STC W panels are physically larger than your current panels by 25 - 30% or so. After accounting for age degradation of your current panels, you'll get about the same production per square area (ft^2 or m^2) from either the new or old panels +/- a bit.
By analogy: If you swap out the old panels and keep the same total array area, you'll have just as many pounds of rocks but they'll be bigger and you'll have fewer of them.
2.) The physical size difference between old and new panels might well cause a problem when matching to your current racking. (More holes in the roof ?)
3.) The 400 W panels will be throttled (limited) by the M215's if you don't upgrade the micros.
4.) Swapping out a complete array will probably cost as much or more than a new system by itself for little increase in output per installed STC W.
5.) Depending on where you live (CA I.O.U.s in particular) your POCO may well limit your array size increase. Check your NEM if you have one.
6.) Solar installer and peddlers are dropping like flies. Good luck finding a reputable installer to change out an existing system they probably didn't install.
7.) Not as many people are buying/installing new residential arrays much less old ones.
The value added to a home by an array is not anywhere near easy to estimate and probably much less than solar peddlers and real estate slugs would want you to believe, making the value added a somewhat dubious thing.

If it was me (and it is BTW - I've got a 12+ Y.O. 5.2 STC kW array running just fine), I'd stick with what you've got and keep it running and serviced. If you do, it'll probably have at least 10 or more years of useful output. In the meantime, to save money, reduce your use through conservation efforts: That's the cheapest and most cost-effective way to reduce an electric bill and always has been, and check w/your POCO about super off-peak rates for EV and other heavy chores.

[desmo907]

Thanks for the response. I did not realize about the M215 micros.... so I would need to update to the IQ7 (maybe 300-250 panels)....ugh!
I might price out adding another column (3 panels) to extend the system as long as the circuit (?) can handle it. Still get the 30% tax credit that helps. Just matching the color may be tricky unless I can find the same Hyundia 250 and anchor each end (column) with the same color panels

[MGE]

I would do as JPM suggested and just keep on keepin on with what you got.
Adding more panels to your existing system has some consequences to consider.

I installed (34) 260w Suniva panels with the 215 micros back in 2013, less than 3 yrs to break even for me.
I ended up adding another 1kw a couple of years ago after speaking to my Utility provider and he said I could add up to 1000w additional and still be billed at the original NEM 1.0 rate that I have.
I ended up buying some used 260w panels on Craigslist for $60 each and was also able to get some new enphase 215 micros on e-bay at about $125 each.
Had to install additional racking, cabling, conduit, wiring etc.

Spent less than $2k for everything on the add on.

Before adding the additional panels we paid around $800 annually for electricity cost and then after we have not had any monthly costs, only credits which like you they settle up and zero out the account every May.

Just looked at my Enphase Envoy monitor that I have in my garage and it says I have generated 159Mw to date.
Not a single panel or micro has failed or had an issue in the 12 yrs I have had it operational.

I will ride this system out till it dies.

[desmo907]

Thanks.. Talked to a few installers here... I forgot to add in how much Eversource increased delivery fees over the years and my break even was maybe 6-7 years.... (from 2012).
I was hoping (without knowledge) that this could be like Legos.. .plug and play.. Haha.... but any new panels need to go on new system with separate wiring, box, etc... and I am grandfathered on Netmeting for 8 more years...I guess now Eversource charges a Tax on solar production...... Replacement seems too expensive.... And Fed tax credit goes away next year... Guess I got in at the right time also... will ride it out... and may move in a few years anyway.. 5.25kw till covers me mostly during the year and should help a bigger family later.

Just hard to find someone to swap out a micro... so i may do it myself.. on lowest panel row on end on garage roof.... seems easy enough Power off!

[MGE]

To swap out a micro is plug and play with a few considerations.
Turn your breakers off at your panel to deenergize your panels and remove and replace as needed.
I was able to find some new older style 215 micros on e-bay for like $125 apiece if I remember correctly.
That way my additional panels would be compatable with the original profile and just edited my system on-line to show the newer install.
Been about 2 years so far with the “used” panels and the “new” micros and no issues at all, just increased production.

[desmo907]

Thanks. That's what the last installer did.
enPhase sent me IQ7 that i guess is new replacement for the 215 ...others they sent work fine. I actually have another spare also they sent by accident. Wonder if replacing a good 215 would get me anything else just keep it boxed.

Do I need to notify enPhase to update anything online, etc.?

[MGE]

On my Enphase on-line monitoring website I needed to modify my original layout and supply additional information to properly monitor the new layout.
I had to enter the panel/micro serial #’s, model, angle, direction etc.
That way the monitoring Envoy can recognize the added on devices to provide an accurate profile when viewing on-line.
Pretty easy to do on the site.

[desmo907]

On my Enphase on-line monitoring website I needed to modify my original layout and supply additional information to properly monitor the new layout.
I had to enter the panel/micro serial #’s, model, angle, direction etc.
That way the monitoring Envoy can recognize the added on devices to provide an accurate profile when viewing on-line.
Pretty easy to do on the site.

My sytem (on their website - Devices tab) shows I have 21 M215 micros (visual display) but the Devices tab shows all Part Numbers (column) being M215 but in the SKU column for 3 of them it shows my IQ7 replacements (M215240-IQ7-S22-RMA). I guess the IQ7 does not show up in the visual display.

When I replace my M215 with the new IQ7 do I use the buttons at the top of the page : Retire, Remove, Unretire Or something else... and how to add the new one?
I do not see anything else...I thought I had to inform enPhase...

[MGE]

Log onto the Enphase website and go to support.
I just typed in how to add panels and micros in an existing system.
Should get a couple of topics that pop up below.

Select “expand post” on the thread “Questions about adding to existing 2.4kw system (2012 era) M215’s.

7 replies should show up and you can kinda get the info there.

I think you also have to “Scan for devices” on your Envoy and then it transfers new info it picks up from there to the website and then there are topics in the support area on how to do different things there if I remember correctly.