Pls help! Solar system dead for 2 months and nobody will help

[davidcheok]

Underground electrical pipes get water in them. Even supposedly glued together PVC conduits. Up here if for example a parking lot light needs to have new wire pulled to it, we'll wait till spring when the ground thaws. I've never pulled out underground wiring and not come away with soaking wet gloves.

Yeah which is why our standards here is to always minimise joints on conduits. However, having a little bit inside vs an entire filled pipe changes the risk profile substantially. I suppose you guys have it worst with frozen grounds. If pipes with water were frozen, think those will just crack. Anyway, if it were me, as i said above, I would blow out the water as much as possible. You have your own standards and procedures over there.

[Mike 134]

Underground electrical pipes get water in them. Even supposedly glued together PVC conduits. Up here if for example a parking lot light needs to have new wire pulled to it, we'll wait till spring when the ground thaws. I've never pulled out underground wiring and not come away with soaking wet gloves.

[davidcheok]

OP again.

Should I remove that water? Any idea how I can do that?


Otherchuck

water in pipe smaller.jpg

I think you can use a blower to blow out the excess at the very least. If you can leave a blower to blow dry air into the pipe for at least an hour, it should remove most of the water.

Think the tech would know the whole point of those pipes if to prevent/minimise contact with water and having the pipe and wires submerged in water is all kinds of wrong.

[otherchuck]

OP again.

Yes, davidcheok, you are correct about water in the pipe coming from the junction being filled with water (see photo). The guy from Company A discovered this when he was out here, but my wife tells me (I wasn't home) he didn't seemed worried about this (tho he was worried about the flooded junction box). Should I remove that water? Any idea how I can do that?

My wife handles most communication with these people because she is far more diplomatic than I am (I am 'bad cop' and she is 'good cop'). But she did send out a sternly worded email yesterday, and in response, Company B said they will send someone out on Feb 10th. I am inclined to assume they will cancel that appointment, but in the event they do send someone out, I would love to be armed with as much relevant "safety code" info as possible. For instance, if they say "Oh, its okay to leave standing water in that pipe," I would love to be able say "Really? Because Section 3.1.4, subsection D of California's solar installation safety codes says the wires should not be submerged indefinitely in water."

So if any of y'all here who are conversant with relevant safety codes (including type of junction box and where wires may enter), please PLEASE feel free to arm me with all kinds of relevant info I can share with Company B, who I feel certain will otherwise hope to skip by with another crap job. I presume codes vary by state, but since I live in California, I presume our applicable safety codes are as strict or more strict than any other states.

Otherchuck

water in pipe smaller.jpg

[davidcheok]

I think that pipe on the side that goes underground may have water inside. If the box was full of water, the excess would have gone down into that pipe. If and when you get the box done up, may want to dig that pipe out and make sure its dry.

[MGE]

OP glad you wound out the problem, or the cause of it hopefully.

Im sure it doesn't need to be said but drill a small weep hole in the bottom and properly check ALL fittings penetrating into the j-box and make sure they have the proper sealing devices if needed.

Looks like a raintite fitting is used for the EMT on the top, maybe the hole is improperly sized allowing water to enter.

Quick fix is replace that box with a WP 2 gang box with the correct sized hubs and reconnect and make sure cover is secure and your good to go.
You could drill a small hole in that too but probably not necessary.

I would check EVERY box or connection in this entire system.
One mistake could be more.

[azdave]

PS: Any lawyers want a piece of this? Seems like an easy winner

Lawyers? How much money you got to burn? They won't really be interested unless someone was killed or injured.

My recommendation is get it fixed and let it go. You don't need that stress in your life and besides, it's highly unlikely it will ever be resolved to your full satisfaction. Why keep dragging it out since you already know you will get little traction from further complaints. I seriously doubt anyone in authority over these installers is going to get excited about some moisture in a splice box that caused a ground fault. They will give you lip service at best.

[peakbagger]

I agree thanks to the OP for the update. I hope we helped?

I wonder if there is licensing board in CA that would be interested in photos.

It's not just rookies, I was involved with combined heat and power project installed in industrial plant last year. Sprinkler lines, steam lines, hot and cold water lines all running in the ceiling above the controls cabinet (Gasketed FRP enclosure). They ran conduit down through the top with mechanical bushings (not watertight). A line let loose above the enclosure and soaked the interior of the panel including the PLC and all the IO along with several "brains" for field installed transmitters. Once dried out most of the PLC started working but any warranty is null and void. The replacement components which used to be off the shelf are now backordered a year>

[Mike 134]

Thanks for returning to the forum and posting the resolution to your troubles

[davidcheok]

OP here again, with a an update so sad it is almost hilarious.


Company A representative drove an hr to our house and figured out the problem in about a nanosecond. See photos. First photo is the junction box as installed by Company A; wiring entry points at left and right of box, no problems for a few yrs. When Company B put in batteries, they put a wiring entry point into top of junction box. Uh oh. Where we live in southern California, USA, yes, its true, we barely get any rain. But we do get some. When company A rep came out, he removed the faceplate of the junction box and water poured out (second photo). It has been full of water for a few months (see third photo).


solar jbox orig.jpgemptied jbox v1.jpgdestroyed wiring jbox.jpg

Correct way to connect to the junction box should be from underneath, not sides and especially not above. I suggest having that redone properly and resealed.

What's important here is the issue is resolved. Lessons learnt. Enjoy the working system.

[DanS26]

All of this because a weep hole was not drilled......jeez. Thanks for the update.

Whatever can go wrong.....will go wrong.

Rookie mistake totally avoidable.

[otherchuck]

OP here again, with a an update so sad it is almost hilarious.

Filed a complaint with CALSSA around Jan 6th, but never got a response; no surprise here as I presumed they were a "do nothing" public relations arm of the solar power industry. Eventually got a guy from Company A to come out and check.

Not sure what I said in this forum before but...to review...but Company A (original solar panels installers a few yrs ago) seems the lesser villain here. Primary villain here appears to be Company B, who installed batteries and new inverter a year or so ago. Company B, it turns out (wish we had known this before!), apparently has a particularly bad 'customer service' reputation in an industry famous for appalling 'customer service'. When the system went down in mid-November 2022, Company B said "Not our fault; anything before inverter we installed is Company A's responsibility." Okay, lets keep that claim in mind as we review the evidence included here.

Company A representative drove an hr to our house and figured out the problem in about a nanosecond. See photos. First photo is the junction box as installed by Company A; wiring entry points at left and right of box, no problems for a few yrs. When Company B put in batteries, they put a wiring entry point into top of junction box. Uh oh. Where we live in southern California, USA, yes, its true, we barely get any rain. But we do get some. When company A rep came out, he removed the faceplate of the junction box and water poured out (second photo). It has been full of water for a few months (see third photo).

So, courtesy of Company B's workmanship, the junction box that says "CAUTION SOLAR CIRCUIT" was full of water for a few months. I will repeat that with your permission: The junction box that says "CAUTION SOLAR CIRCUIT" was full of water for a few months. Hazardous at all? And yet Company B is licensed to install solar equipment in the State of California? Could my dog (a relatively bright Australian Shepherd) also get such a license? I am not a huge fan of gov't regulation of various industries, but...c'mon!...if ever there was an industry that deserved hardcore state regulation, it has got to be the solar power industry, right? I will be filing a complaint with another presumptuously "Do nothing" contractor's license agency (for California), and when I went to their site I noticed something telling: There is one button you click for all possible contractors licenses (minus one); so that portal was for pool contractors, auto repairs, plumbers, almost everybody. And there was a separate portal dedicated to just one type of contractor: Solar. Customer service so vile, they get there own complaint button. How is there not a class action suit brewing (or is there?)!

Company A rep sent sharply worded communication with photos to Company B but we have had no response from Company B and don't expect one. Pretty sure they will say what they have said before: If the problem is before the inverter, its not our fault.

Otherchuck

PS: Any lawyers want a piece of this? Seems like an easy winner

solar jbox orig.jpgemptied jbox v1.jpgdestroyed wiring jbox.jpg

[Mike 134]

Since it's a ground mount don't tough anything but take a good hard look at all the wiring. Squirrels and mice love to chew the insulation off to use in their nests. Might find a burn mark where the wire touches the metal frame. All fixable by any decent electrician.

[mustardjo]

We are in a similar situation with a "barely performing system" and a company that will do nothing to help. We have filed a complaint with the Attorney General. If enough dissatisfied customers in Calif. do this perhaps Calif. Attorney General will take action...as the AGs in other states are doing to prevent this type of misrepresentation and fraud. We also filed a complaint with Calif. State Contractor's License Board. This is taking a long time. But ESP has been under investigation and we suspect their will be violations against them. Good Luck...we know how frustrating and maddening this is.

[otherchuck]

OP here,

Thank you so much for the clarification. Got it this time.

Otherchuck