Charging an Electric Car

[bcroe]

We can all invest in an EV and oil will still be expensive because it is used in just about any product (chemical or plastic) that is made. Oil my friend will be around as long as people are alive and want to purchase things.

Yes oil will always be around, but we need to minimize the polution it
is causing. As for plastics, I am appalled that so much plastic use
continues. Despite the polution it causes, an example of the
power of cos and the uncaring public. There was a lot of stuff in
reusable glass in my younger years. Bruce Roe

[Ampster]

....

We can all invest in an EV and oil will still be expensive because it is used in just about any product (chemical or plastic) that is made. Oil my friend will be around as long as people are alive and want to purchase things.

I think you have missed the point of many of these posts about the economic benefits. . Glad to see you agree oil will still be expensive and of course that makes the economics of driving EVs more attractive. Oil will remain as an essential ingredient in the plastic which we all consume.

[SunEagle]

Right - but that's a public utility. Politicians set those prices.

The oil business is (or is at least supposed to be) more of a free market. And I can guarantee you that if oil companies see refined gasoline piling up in storage facilities, they are going to want to move it, rather than build more storage facilities.

One thing I learned when my father and uncle use to work for one of the big oil companies is that other companies will purchase the gasoline and any other product that they produce. You can't hurt an oil company by not purchasing their product because someone else will. Unfortunately gas prices will not come down until the oil company says so and if they want to make a profit (which they do) then expect the prices to stay high. They won't need to build any storage facility because other people with those will purchase the product.

We can all invest in an EV and oil will still be expensive because it is used in just about any product (chemical or plastic) that is made. Oil my friend will be around as long as people are alive and want to purchase things.

[jflorey2]

Maybe in Economics 101 but in the real world I have seen companies (like water) raise their prices because people were using less due to a drought.

Right - but that's a public utility. Politicians set those prices.

The oil business is (or is at least supposed to be) more of a free market. And I can guarantee you that if oil companies see refined gasoline piling up in storage facilities, they are going to want to move it, rather than build more storage facilities.

[Ampster]

Maybe in Economics 101 but in the real world I have seen companies (like water) raise their prices because people were using less due to a drought.

While I agree that if the demand is lower and the supply is high the prices should go down but in today's economy it seems the companies will raise their prices to keep the profits coming in if the demand is lower. Strange but it happens

You are correct the fundemental free market economics often are not working. That is another reason why I wanted more control of the cost of driving a vehicle. Have you ever noticed the ratchet effect when gas prices go up in a crisis but they never ratchet down to the levels the were before the crisis. We can be a slave to that or we can make choices to not be subject to that kind of manipulation.
I do fell sorry for folks that can't see what is coming and are going to have to pay high prices just to drive an ICE.

[Ward L]

I have a 2018 Tesla Model 3 with 42k miles and a 2010 F-150 with 72k miles. I am number 43,000 on the wait list for a Cybertruck. We are retired and rich (by my standards). We have taken our Tesla on 2,000+ mile trips and never had to be towed because we ran out of battery. We got a flat once and had to be towed to the tire place. Pretty much I have been a gear-head most of my life with a 1966 Mustang, a 280ZX and a 1965 427 Shelby Cobra. I worked for an oil company for my 37 year career. I would never buy an ICE vehicle again because the electrics are so much nicer, more fun to drive, cheaper to operate and better for the environment. Every year, more and more people experience what a delightful change it is to drive an EV. It is the future for sure. Having oversized solar panels just makes this better. I can wake up every morning and have a full tank of electrons in my tank at almost no cost to me. I live in California and have not seen the extra charge for a road tax. I think it is fair to charge EVs something for their wear and tear on the public roads. I am 70 and hope I live long enough to see the impact of EVs on the air in California. I have to say I am somewhat repulsed when I think of all the gasoline I have bought and burned into pollutants into our environment. With solar panels to generate electricity to charge my EV to drive around is simply amazing! Sure, I generate solar power during the day and charge up at night, but it is still free electrons. I also wonder at my age what I'm I doing buying a $100k Cybertruck truck when I doubt I'll put more than 20,000 miles on it before I die. I suppose I am going to do that because I can. Solar panels and electric cars are a match made in Heaven...

[SunEagle]

Supply and demand. Lower demand, same supply = lower prices.

Maybe in Economics 101 but in the real world I have seen companies (like water) raise their prices because people were using less due to a drought.

While I agree that if the demand is lower and the supply is high the prices should go down but in today's economy it seems the companies will raise their prices to keep the profits coming in if the demand is lower. Strange but it happens

[jflorey2]

Why would you think that a lower usage of gas and diesel will bring down the prices?

Supply and demand. Lower demand, same supply = lower prices.

[SunEagle]

Yep. I will believe that gas prices are truly causing people serious hardship when they start slowing down on the freeway. Haven't seen it yet.

One of the nice pluses of EV's is that they will inherently reduce demand for gas and diesel. Less demand = lower prices for the people still driving gas cars. And while I don't much care how much Joey BagoDonuts pays for his V8 truck that he drives to work and bars, I do worry about the professional drivers who deliver the goods we all use.

Why would you think that a lower usage of gas and diesel will bring down the prices?

The last I heard is if there is less usage it usually increase prices to cover costs.

[jflorey2]

One can only hope that a quality EV truck becomes available to satisfy the country folk. I know that I am driving less but anytime I run the interstate I get passed on both sides even though I am driving over the limit. People just seem to be in a rush and don't care what gas mileage they get.

Yep. I will believe that gas prices are truly causing people serious hardship when they start slowing down on the freeway. Haven't seen it yet.

One of the nice pluses of EV's is that they will inherently reduce demand for gas and diesel. Less demand = lower prices for the people still driving gas cars. And while I don't much care how much Joey BagoDonuts pays for his V8 truck that he drives to work and bars, I do worry about the professional drivers who deliver the goods we all use.

[SunEagle]

Environmental reasons? The arguments on this thread have all been about the economics. I still agree that there will be people who are, as you say "stupid", and will not see the economic benefits. Even worse are those that use false assumptions and try to convince others people why an EV is not a vehicle that offers a long term lower cost of operation.

I believe an EV will save money compared to an ICE vehicle. But I also believe that getting rid of an ICE vehicle before it is used up is a waste of money unless you switch over to a cheap used bicycle or walk. Being in the country without mass transportation or businesses that are close by makes a vehicle necessary. But EV's are still a way out for me.

From what I see posted here a lot of people that push EV's seem to think they are saving the world by going "green" which IMO is a false belief. Even getting rid of a large vehicle and getting a smaller one before the large one is junk can be a financial drain.

Some day EV's will be more common then an ICE but I think it will not happen until way in the future after I have died because I am going to be 69 next month. Again IMO an EV price has to come way down to compete with used ICE vehicles before the majority of people can afford one

[Ampster]

......

Oh and "the sky isn't falling" for me but it seems that people that insist on getting an EV for environmental reasons may think different.

Environmental reasons? The arguments on this thread have all been about the economics. I still agree that there will be people who are, as you say "stupid", and will not see the economic benefits. Even worse are those that use false assumptions and try to convince others people why an EV is not a vehicle that offers a long term lower cost of operation.

[SunEagle]

As I said earlier SunEagle I am not trying to convince you to change your mind. I don't understand why you persist in these "sky is falling" arguments that defy the economics. Have you done the same math at $3.90 gasoline and the cost of electricity that you are paying? I agree with your assessment of those that "stupidly" ignore the economic savings.

As of now I can't justify getting an EV based on my current ICE vehicles still having a lot of life in them. Maybe if I was in the market and the charging infrastructure was better in my area I would do the cost calculations. But not yet and I question if people living in other states with low cost of fuel or electricity need to get an EV now.

Of course if someone that is rich and concerned for our environment wants to purchase an EV for me I would serious think of accepting one.

Oh and "the sky isn't falling" for me but it seems that people that insist on getting an EV for environmental reasons may think different.

[Ampster]

As I said earlier SunEagle I am not trying to convince you to change your mind. I don't understand why you persist in these "sky is falling" arguments that defy the economics. Have you done the same math at $3.90 gasoline and the cost of electricity that you are paying? I agree with your assessment of those that "stupidly" ignore the economic savings.

[SunEagle]

That will also change with time as more EV trucks become available. Note that country folk generally drive fewer miles per year than city people.

One can only hope that a quality EV truck becomes available to satisfy the country folk. I know that I am driving less but anytime I run the interstate I get passed on both sides even though I am driving over the limit. People just seem to be in a rush and don't care what gas mileage they get. And most trucks around here are big V8's so most people that want to replace one with an EV truck will be a long time coming.

Oh our basic cost of gas is maybe $3.90/gal around here.