Charging an Electric Car

[SunEagle]

I have a question for those of you enjoying electric vehicles. I frequently see environmental reports about supposed cost benefits for electricity ($0.10-12/KWH) and that really surprises me. How much are your real cost for charging electric vehicles???

My reason for question is, I pay only $0.12 now until my contract expires here in Massachusetts. But there are numerous other charges I and my fellow Eversource customers get billed. Eversouce (the supplier) has a host of small charges that they bill as ''delivery fees'' and that cost is higher than the product cost. Without going to my desk to share with all the actual charges, I remember deliverery to be about $0.14/ KWH bringing my usage cost to $0.25-0.26 for every consumed kilowatt hour.

And to make matters worse, our governor....and no, not a Democrat recently signed into law that electric companies....I think starting in 2025, must add 3% renewables to their product EVERY YEAR! Some years ago, Massachusetts was known as Taxachusetts, I don't know what the new slang name will be but someone certainly will come up with a good one.

I think what some people are missing is the added cost a state will add to the registrations of EV's to cover the cost of rode work that is included in each gallon of gas sold. Some states are already doing this to cover road repair costs and IMO it will only get worse as more EV's are sold.

[Ampster]

I think what some people are missing is the added cost a state will add to the registrations of EV's to cover the cost of rode work that is included in each gallon of gas sold. Some states are already doing this to cover road repair costs and IMO it will only get worse as more EV's are sold.

Missing? I am not trying to convince you to buy an EV but I just want other readers to understand the math. Most of the comments above do not seem to be missing anything. I think what you are ignoring is the long term lower cost of operating an EV.
That tax is $175 in California and based on driving 12,000 miles a year that is going to add one and one half cents per mile. Considering gas is $6 a gallon and a vehicle that gets 25 miles to the gallon, the cost of just fuel is $0.24per mile compared to maybe $0.07 per mile to power an electric car at California off peak rates of $0,21 per kWh, Even if the tax doubles, the cost per mile might be $0,10 per mile compared to $0.24 per mile for an Internal Combustion Engine driven car, For many of us who have invested in solar the cost per mile is going to be even better.

[peakbagger]

Mass was betting on running a big DC "extension cord" up through NH to get hooked up to "Clean Canadian Hydro" which was really rebranded fossil power from a natural gas plant in Three Rivers Quebec that Hydro Quebec was paying a lot of money to sit there. NH eventually rejected the line and they moved onto a big "extension cord" in Western Maine. That project is still in court as the state of Maine voters have voted to stop it twice. Meanwhile Vt Yankee and Pilgrim nuclear power plants are long gone. The next big bet is offshore wind, it is quite expensive to deploy paid for by Mass ratepayers. Solar is getting deployed through the state but the reason it is getting built are very high subsidies paid for by ratepayers. They state has "clean peak" and big storage incentives being implemented also paid for by the ratepayer. BTW Mass used to get renewable power from multiple small biomass power plants in Maine and NH burning waste wood from land clearing and forestry operations but a prior Mass governor made a political decision to keep these plants out of western Mass and paid for an intentionally flawed study to justify it.

If and when the US gets serious about AGW, this is going to play out all over the country. The last administration delayed the effort by canceling the Clean Power Plan. Under the Clean Power Plan, states like Mass were in pretty good shape but many states who voted for the last administration were in far worse shape. So its pay me now pay me later dumping the shift to renewables on the next generations.

[SunEagle]

Missing? I am not trying to convince you to buy an EV but I just want other readers to understand the math. Most of the comments above do not seem to be missing anything. I think what you are ignoring is the long term lower cost of operating an EV.
That tax is $175 in California and based on driving 12,000 miles a year that is going to add one and one half cents per mile. Considering gas is $6 a gallon and a vehicle that gets 25 miles to the gallon, the cost of just fuel is $0.24per mile compared to maybe $0.07 per mile to power an electric car at California off peak rates of $0,21 per kWh, Even if the tax doubles, the cost per mile might be $0,10 per mile compared to $0.24 per mile for an Internal Combustion Engine driven car, For many of us who have invested in solar the cost per mile is going to be even better.

My "missing" comment was directed at foggysail. In case he forgot the added expense for EV's that his state may soon introduce..

As for CA. I expect a loud cry out when ICE vehicles are no longer allowed to be sold in that state which I hear now is in 2035 but who knows what the politics or cost will be by then even with solar pv systems.

[DanS26]

In Indiana the EV tax surcharge is $150 per year. Indiana charges $.30 per gal gas tax for road maintenance and the Federal gas tax is $.183 per gallon that everyone pays.

According to my calculations I have avoided $521.13 in State and Federal gas taxes and have paid $425 in EV tax surcharges. I'm ahead of the gas tax game here in Indiana for the almost three years ownership of my EV.

[SunEagle]

In Indiana the EV tax surcharge is $150 per year. Indiana charges $.30 per gal gas tax for road maintenance and the Federal gas tax is $.183 per gallon that everyone pays.

According to my calculations I have avoided $521.13 in State and Federal gas taxes and have paid $425 in EV tax surcharges. I'm ahead of the gas tax game here in Indiana for the almost three years ownership of my EV.

Sounds like an EV pays for itself. But when will the state determine that they are not getting enough from the gas tax to keep the roads safe before they increase the EV tax to cover the road repairs? If you can get an EV now then it seems to be financially worth it. But for most an EV is not a possibility so they will miss out on the savings.

[DanS26]

IMO the $25,000 EV with a 300 mile range will be the death of ICE......even the the most die-hard gearheads cannot ignore the savings. That car is coming and probably from China first...they are getting close.

[SunEagle]

IMO the $25,000 EV with a 300 mile range will be the death of ICE......even the the most die-hard gearheads cannot ignore the savings. That car is coming and probably from China first...they are getting close.

Maybe for city dwellers an EV will work but a lot of country folks want a big truck and will (stupidly) pay any price for gas to run it.

[jflorey2]

Maybe for city dwellers an EV will work but a lot of country folks want a big truck and will (stupidly) pay any price for gas to run it.

That will also change with time as more EV trucks become available. Note that country folk generally drive fewer miles per year than city people.

[SunEagle]

That will also change with time as more EV trucks become available. Note that country folk generally drive fewer miles per year than city people.

One can only hope that a quality EV truck becomes available to satisfy the country folk. I know that I am driving less but anytime I run the interstate I get passed on both sides even though I am driving over the limit. People just seem to be in a rush and don't care what gas mileage they get. And most trucks around here are big V8's so most people that want to replace one with an EV truck will be a long time coming.

Oh our basic cost of gas is maybe $3.90/gal around here.

[Ampster]

As I said earlier SunEagle I am not trying to convince you to change your mind. I don't understand why you persist in these "sky is falling" arguments that defy the economics. Have you done the same math at $3.90 gasoline and the cost of electricity that you are paying? I agree with your assessment of those that "stupidly" ignore the economic savings.

[SunEagle]

As I said earlier SunEagle I am not trying to convince you to change your mind. I don't understand why you persist in these "sky is falling" arguments that defy the economics. Have you done the same math at $3.90 gasoline and the cost of electricity that you are paying? I agree with your assessment of those that "stupidly" ignore the economic savings.

As of now I can't justify getting an EV based on my current ICE vehicles still having a lot of life in them. Maybe if I was in the market and the charging infrastructure was better in my area I would do the cost calculations. But not yet and I question if people living in other states with low cost of fuel or electricity need to get an EV now.

Of course if someone that is rich and concerned for our environment wants to purchase an EV for me I would serious think of accepting one.

Oh and "the sky isn't falling" for me but it seems that people that insist on getting an EV for environmental reasons may think different.

[Ampster]

......

Oh and "the sky isn't falling" for me but it seems that people that insist on getting an EV for environmental reasons may think different.

Environmental reasons? The arguments on this thread have all been about the economics. I still agree that there will be people who are, as you say "stupid", and will not see the economic benefits. Even worse are those that use false assumptions and try to convince others people why an EV is not a vehicle that offers a long term lower cost of operation.

[SunEagle]

Environmental reasons? The arguments on this thread have all been about the economics. I still agree that there will be people who are, as you say "stupid", and will not see the economic benefits. Even worse are those that use false assumptions and try to convince others people why an EV is not a vehicle that offers a long term lower cost of operation.

I believe an EV will save money compared to an ICE vehicle. But I also believe that getting rid of an ICE vehicle before it is used up is a waste of money unless you switch over to a cheap used bicycle or walk. Being in the country without mass transportation or businesses that are close by makes a vehicle necessary. But EV's are still a way out for me.

From what I see posted here a lot of people that push EV's seem to think they are saving the world by going "green" which IMO is a false belief. Even getting rid of a large vehicle and getting a smaller one before the large one is junk can be a financial drain.

Some day EV's will be more common then an ICE but I think it will not happen until way in the future after I have died because I am going to be 69 next month. Again IMO an EV price has to come way down to compete with used ICE vehicles before the majority of people can afford one

[jflorey2]

One can only hope that a quality EV truck becomes available to satisfy the country folk. I know that I am driving less but anytime I run the interstate I get passed on both sides even though I am driving over the limit. People just seem to be in a rush and don't care what gas mileage they get.

Yep. I will believe that gas prices are truly causing people serious hardship when they start slowing down on the freeway. Haven't seen it yet.

One of the nice pluses of EV's is that they will inherently reduce demand for gas and diesel. Less demand = lower prices for the people still driving gas cars. And while I don't much care how much Joey BagoDonuts pays for his V8 truck that he drives to work and bars, I do worry about the professional drivers who deliver the goods we all use.