Carrington Event Prognostication

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  • Salts
    Solar Fanatic
    • Sep 2019
    • 216

    #16
    Originally posted by Ampster
    I understand the impact. I just dont have a clear sense for the probability of a Carrington event.
    I have In friend who is a retired lawyer in Florida. He tells me when the banks stop lending on ocean front property there it is going to be a big economic disruption from sea level rise. I know planning departments in my former beach town in California are already requiring some additional dewatering systems for some projects. That is palpable.
    You don't have a clear sense because its a random thing. I'm a bit of an armchair astronomer, and while I'm no expert on our Sun, its my understanding that X class flares happen almost every month when the sun is NOT at the bottom of its solar cycle. These X class flares are usually not at the Carrington level however, and the Earth is usually not in the path of the CME direction. Carrington level flares happen almost every Solar cycle at some point, but again, we have to be in its path and we usually aren't. The Carrington event was estimated to be an X class in the 25 to 50 range.

    Back in 2003, a Carrington level flare erupted from the sun but just brushed pass us. It saturated the radiation detectors on one of our satellites which was capable of measuring up to X20 or something like, that and that satellite wasn't even in the middle. Then again, in 2012, a monster X flare just missed earth by a few days. It was the equivalent of a bullet missing your head by 3 inches. NASA had a satellite that was trailing Earth's orbit that was designed to measure the flares and it was saturated past its capability as well. They say had we got hit with that one, we'd still be recovering from it. Maybe NASA should build better satellites?

    The direct odds of a Carrington level event hitting us are 12% per decade. If I recall correctly, they originally put it at 10%, then adjusted up a bit after more data. The last one to hit us was the Carrington event so we're overdue. Of course, as you probably know, just because you bet on red or black doesn't mean each will come up 50% of the time in any given time frame.

    The good thing about a catastrophic CME is that it puts the entire planet in the same boat. A nuclear EMP however, just makes one geographic area vulnerable.

    From what I can tell from studying Bosnia, when the power goes off for more than a couple weeks, society is going to self destruct in the worst imaginable way.

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    • willow1
      Junior Member
      • Mar 2018
      • 12

      #17
      Ok, so if I have a bit of notice that a CME is going to hit, can I protect my grid tied equipment by turning off all the disconnects, the breakers and inverter, or will there still be cabling and electronics that will be fried regardless?

      Comment

      • bcroe
        Solar Fanatic
        • Jan 2012
        • 5198

        #18
        Originally posted by Paul Land
        A vacuum tube inverter and salt H2o batteries will still work for lights then what!
        Before solid state we converted DC with mechanical contacts or rotating machinery. The
        only tube converter I remember was a 6V6 generating 6KV for a 7 inch CRT. We need
        A & B batteries. Mercury vapor tubes did big power. Bruce Roe

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        • Paul Land
          Solar Fanatic
          • Nov 2018
          • 213

          #19
          Originally posted by SunEagle

          And wax will work for candles. So what.
          And Lake ice for frig,Next

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          • Salts
            Solar Fanatic
            • Sep 2019
            • 216

            #20
            Originally posted by willow1
            Ok, so if I have a bit of notice that a CME is going to hit, can I protect my grid tied equipment by turning off all the disconnects, the breakers and inverter, or will there still be cabling and electronics that will be fried regardless?
            Yup.. Just turn off ALL the breakers and unplug everything.

            Solar EMP (CME) only affects things connected to the grid or things with very long conductive paths (1 volt per meter). Of course, it sets them all on fire, but its just stuff connected to the grid you need to worry about.

            Nuclear EMP is an entirely different animal. The two are so different that's its kind of a falsehood to label them both as EMP's, they have about as much in common as an airplane and a concrete truck. Protection against a Nuclear EMP is not economically practical for equipment that is in use. It can be done, but the equipment is expensive.

            Comment

            • Mike90250
              Moderator
              • May 2009
              • 16020

              #21
              Originally posted by willow1
              Ok, so if I have a bit of notice that a CME is going to hit, can I protect my grid tied equipment by turning off all the disconnects, the breakers and inverter, or will there still be cabling and electronics that will be fried regardless?
              No, a large event will jump the 1/4" gap inside the switch and breakers and cook your goose. Just unplug stuff. cables shorter than a couple hundred feet should be fine. The aerial cable from the power poles to your house will generate enough to cook your goose.
              Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
              || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
              || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

              solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
              gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

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              • ButchDeal
                Solar Fanatic
                • Apr 2014
                • 3802

                #22
                Originally posted by Salts

                Yup.. Just turn off ALL the breakers and unplug everything.

                Solar EMP (CME) only affects things connected to the grid or things with very long conductive paths (1 volt per meter). Of course, it sets them all on fire, but its just stuff connected to the grid you need to worry about.

                Nuclear EMP is an entirely different animal. The two are so different that's its kind of a falsehood to label them both as EMP's, they have about as much in common as an airplane and a concrete truck. Protection against a Nuclear EMP is not economically practical for equipment that is in use. It can be done, but the equipment is expensive.
                It can effect things like ethernet cables which are long and the equipment on the ends is not rated for these spikes of power.

                OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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                • Salts
                  Solar Fanatic
                  • Sep 2019
                  • 216

                  #23
                  Originally posted by ButchDeal

                  It can effect things like ethernet cables which are long and the equipment on the ends is not rated for these spikes of power.
                  That's true. My cameras are all hard wired with the stuff. The one that runs out to the solar system is a good 120 feet. Nice catch, I didn't even think of cat5 cables.

                  If it does happen, I think I'm going to plug in a 200 foot extension cord into a toaster and stretch it out on the lawn. I would love to see my toaster make toast without being plugged in.

                  Comment

                  • SunEagle
                    Super Moderator
                    • Oct 2012
                    • 15125

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Salts

                    That's true. My cameras are all hard wired with the stuff. The one that runs out to the solar system is a good 120 feet. Nice catch, I didn't even think of cat5 cables.

                    If it does happen, I think I'm going to plug in a 200 foot extension cord into a toaster and stretch it out on the lawn. I would love to see my toaster make toast without being plugged in.
                    Magnetic fields will cause a lot of metal things to get hot. No need for a toaster.

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