Walmart Suing Tesla for multiple roof fires

[peakbagger]

The news hit today that Walmart is suing Tesla for multiple roof array fires. They are demanding Tesla remove panels from 240 installations. Its going to be an interesting one. I wonder where all the removed panels will end up?. Maybe that is the inventory for the new rental program


(Plenty of new articles but did not include a link to avoid the spam filter)

[NEOH]

Not a Tesla battery problem, but a Solar City solar panel / installation issue.

"... Walmart is suing Tesla for breach of contract and gross negligence after rooftop solar panel systems on SEVEN (7) of the retailer's stores allegedly caught FIRE, according to a filing ..."

One system was "disconnected" and then it started a fire.
A lack of quality at Solar City and / or a bad installation ...

[ButchDeal]

"In the suit, they also alleged that Tesla failed to ground its solar and electrical systems properly"

"The retailer's inspectors saw dangerous connections, including loose and hanging wires at several locations, according to the complaint."

"Many of the problems stemmed from a rushed, negligent approach to the systems' installation," Walmart said in the complaint.

[J.P.M.]

"In the suit, they also alleged that Tesla failed to ground its solar and electrical systems properly"

"The retailer's inspectors saw dangerous connections, including loose and hanging wires at several locations, according to the complaint."

"Many of the problems stemmed from a rushed, negligent approach to the systems' installation," Walmart said in the complaint.

Anecdotally, what the piece describes seems very familiar to a lot of what I've seen of the 25+ or so SolarCity installs in my HOA that I've reviewed and inspected over the last 9+ years.

[Ampster]

I always thought that the purchase of Solar City was a bailout. News like this confirms that there was a bigger liability tail than I imagined.

[JSchnee21]

Aside from potential installation quality issues, new information suggests a potentially systemic issue with H4 connectors and SolarEdge Optimizers (or at least the H4 connectors on the optimizers). Unless all of the Walmarts were installed by the same crew (unlikely as they are in different states), more likely one or more bad common components or common installation techniques.

https://www.insider.com/tesla-project-titan-replace-bad-solar-panel-parts-2019-8

[ButchDeal]

Aside from potential installation quality issues, new information suggests a potentially systemic issue with H4 connectors and SolarEdge Optimizers (or at least the H4 connectors on the optimizers). Unless all of the Walmarts were installed by the same crew (unlikely as they are in different states), more likely one or more bad common components or common installation techniques.

https://www.insider.com/tesla-projec...l-parts-2019-8

I would suspect that they were miss handled in installation (guessing something like installing all the optimizers at once but leaving the H4 connectors sitting open to the weather for a few days). Other wise Tesla would be suing SolarEdge ..

Shipping the same crew around from state to state is common on big contracts like this too.

Looking through the Summons + Complaint it seems much more about negligence :

Walmart Finds Gross Negligence
12. Beginning after the Beavercreek fire and continuing through December 2018, Walmart's consultants accompanied Tesla personnel on inspections of various solar system sites, including both those that had experienced fires and those that had not. These visits revealed that Tesla had engaged in widespread, systemic negligence and had failed to abide by prudent industry practices in installing, operating, and maintaining its solar systems---conduct that greatly increased the risk of fire at Walmart sites.

14. Walmart's inspectors observed negligent and dangerous wire connection practices, which were readily apparent at many of the sites visited and are a critical risk factor in contributing to fires. Tesla personnel had made numerous on-site cable connections using connectors that were not compatible with one another, and they had often failed to "torque" (i.e., tighten) the connectors adequately, due at least in part to their failure to use proper tools for that purpose.

15. Moreover, Tesla's wire management practices were negligent and inconsistent with prudent industry practices. Loose and hanging wires were present at multiple Walmart locations, resulting in abraded and exposed wires, decreased insulation, and a phenomenon known as arcing that substantially increases the risk of fire by causing electricity to travel through an unintended path. Tesla also failed to "ground" its systems properly, violating basic practices for the installation and operation of electrical systems in a way that increased the risk of electrical fire.

[JSchnee21]

Wow! I'm not surprised, but it still seems hard to believe. I'd expect SolarCity (and other big box installers) to rush and cut corners on residential installs. But I would have expected the crews on these large, multimillion dollar, high profile projects to have been more skilled and to have shown a bit more care (granted I'm sure they are over worked, under paid, and incentiveized to rush)

Three years ago, the solar panels on the roof of our local Macy's caught on fire

https://www.tapinto.net/towns/south-brunswick/articles/east-brunswick-solar-panels-cause-roof-fire-at-m

i don't know who installed them, what brand they were, or what type of inverter system was used. But I was (perhaps still am) concerned about the potential for fire from roof top solar installations when I was planning my system. It was one of the main reasons I was leaning towards Enphase initially. The risk of arcing and fire is much lower with 120VAC than it is with 300+ Volt DC and certainly much lower than commercial 600+ or higher DC. Of course both systems can be safe when installed properly. Still "stuff happens" -- animals chew on wires, cable ties break, wires can rub on stuff, insulation cracks, connectors/junctions can get corroded.

Unfortunately, most solar installers don't use trained/licensed electricians for the DC work -- at least in residential settings -- even in strong Union states like PA and NJ. My installer, whom I am very happy with, only used real electricians for the AC work. And even he was not one of the better electricians I've worked with over the years.

But, where are the building and fire code inspectors in all of this? Let alone the building maintenance managers? I don't excuse SolarCity's crappy work, but I would have thought someone might have noticed some of these more obvious issues before so many building caught on fire. Like the lack of proper grounding? That's one of the first things electrical inspectors look at.

Of course, if they did inspect, they probably only looked at the Inverter tie-in. I'll bet they never looked at the PV field. Or if they did, they probably didn't know what to look for.

[ButchDeal]

But I was (perhaps still am) concerned about the potential for fire from roof top solar installations when I was planning my system. It was one of the main reasons I was leaning towards Enphase initially. The risk of arcing and fire is much lower with 120VAC than it is with 300+ Volt DC and certainly much lower than commercial 600+ or higher DC.

Enphase is 240v AC not 120v

[khanh dam]

over the years I have read about several solar panel fires. So what exactly are the most prevalent reasons for this? If the array is not grounded, then a charge can build up and cause a spark, which might cause a fire. And what exactly caught fire? I assume the roof, because besides the back plastic backing most solar panels are mostly aluminum and glass which does not burn well. If the roof is metal that would be a good safety best practice. What other best practices should be recommended?

[Mike90250]

.... And what exactly cayjvrd fire? ...

That's a new term to me, and a web search didn't help. a typo of some sort ??

[NEOH]

That's a new term to me, and a web search didn't help. a typo of some sort ??

The question is .... What exactly "caught" fire ?

[Ampster]

The roof "cayjvrd" fire. LOL

[Ampster]

...... If the roof is metal that would be a good safety best practice. What other best practices should be recommended?

Metal roofs are not possible on most commercial and industrial buildings, which generally have flat roofs. The fires in question were on those kind of buildings.

[discodanman45]

If Tesla never acquired Solar City they would be an extremely profitable company. This was a stupid decision by Elon. Tesla Solar should be a separate company and not under the Tesla umbrella. It would be a shame if this is the reason Tesla fails.