Solar charge controller over voltage disconnectthe

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  • Sub
    Member
    • Jul 2014
    • 49

    Solar charge controller over voltage disconnectthe

    About four years ago I had new batteries and an MPPT solar charge controller installed in my off grid 48V 580aH set up. They replaced ageing Trojan T105s and an old PWM controller.

    The system was installed over 12 years ago by previous owners, and consists of -

    - 1280W PV array consisting of 16x80W nominally 12V panels made up in strings of four in series to produce a nominal 48V - all strings connected in parallel;
    - a 60A eTracer MPPT cc (new four years ago);
    - Eight 12V AGM batteries in two strings of four connected in parallel to double amp hours (installed 4 yrs ago)
    - a 3000W inverter to produce 240V for the house.

    From day one, the cc has gone into over voltage disconnect mode every time the sun is shining strongly. Everything was installed by professionals and they worked hard to try to stop that happening - reprogrammed the cc several times, changed wiring layout to and from batteries, and the supplier sent a replacement cc which behaved in exactly the same way!

    Eventually the supplier suggested that perhaps the cc was designed to work in that way! After a while the installers and supplier stopped answering my emails, so have lived with the set up.

    The programming has been checked over and over, and is set within correct parameters - although I cannot recall what they are as I type without looking at the onboard computer on the cc.

    One of my concerns is that the cc seldom goes into float mode. The batteries are never discharged enough for a bulk charge to start, so in the morning charging starts at boost, but gets stuck there when the sun is very strong, as the cc works on time in each mode. Each time the cc goes into over voltage disconnect, the computer starts the time count all over again!

    It worries me that this could damage my batteries.

    Some questions -

    1. Do all cc work this way, or are some sophisticated enough to actually control the voltage/amps going to the batteries without disconnecting if the voltages are high? In that regard I note that despite my PV array being nominally 48V, even on a cloudy day the cc read out shows 60V and over. The disconnect happens when the read out shows in excess of 70V coming from the PV array.

    2. If there is a better cc on the market, what make is recommended? We are a retired couple on fixed income and have only now recovered financially from the large outlay 4 years ago to consider buying another cc. Locally, the best cc I have seen advertised is a Studer 60A cc at $NZ1100, but the read out display is for remote use only and costs extra, I would prefer a cc with a built in display.

    Last edited by Sub; 08-20-2019, 08:19 PM.
  • Mike90250
    Moderator
    • May 2009
    • 16020

    #2
    Read this post, and the page the link goes to
    write down the voltages from your charge controllers manual
    Write down the voltages your inverter is supposed to operate at
    Compare them, and compare to the voltages referenced in the Morningstar page.

    "boost" is a marketing term and not an actual charge mode.

    Common terms for stages:
    1 = Bulk
    2 = Absorb (most gassing happens toward the end of this stage)
    3 = Float
    4 = monthly Equalize cycle
    Last edited by Mike90250; 08-21-2019, 01:42 AM.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

    Comment

    • NEOH
      Solar Fanatic
      • Nov 2010
      • 478

      #3
      Originally posted by Mike90250
      Read this post, and the page the link goes to
      write down the voltages from your charge controllers manual
      Write down the voltages your inverter is supposed to operate at
      Compare them, and compare to the voltages referenced in the Morningstar page.

      "boost" is a marketing term and not an actual charge mode.
      Mike,
      I do not see any URL Link ?

      Comment

      • NEOH
        Solar Fanatic
        • Nov 2010
        • 478

        #4
        Originally posted by Sub
        The programming has been checked over and over, and is set within correct parameters - although I cannot recall what they are as I type without looking at the onboard computer on the cc.
        How do you know the parameters are correct?
        You need to document and reply with every setting in your charge controller, asap.

        1) Put an accurate voltage meter on the battery bank AND
        2) Put an accurate voltage meter on the output of the Charge Controller
        Now, tell us BOTH voltages when the Charge controller indicates "Over-Voltage".

        Habitual over-voltage will shorten the life of the battery bank.
        Do you have fat wires between the battery bank and the charge controller?
        What gauge and length cables?
        You may have a high voltage due to a voltage drop across the wires.
        Do you have good clean tight connections at all 16 battery terminals?

        Comment

        • Sub
          Member
          • Jul 2014
          • 49

          #5
          Thanks for the replies.
          Parameters were set by experts. However, when the problem persisted the supplier's (one of the largest supplier/installer of solar systems in New Zealand) in house expert suggested parameters must have been set incorrectly, so we took the cc to him and he reprogrammed it. When I reinstalled it I checked what he had done, and found the parameters he set were identical to before! Wasted my time and money!

          When the over voltage disconnect issue continued after that, the supplier then sort of shrugged, and said that the cc must have been designed to work like the

          Well, that is just crazy! I hit edit to correct a couple of typos, did so, hit save, and three quarters of my post vanished!

          Oh well, here I go again - after the words -

          i give up, retyped my post, hit save, and again everything disappeared!
          Last edited by Sub; 08-20-2019, 10:23 PM.

          Comment

          • Mike90250
            Moderator
            • May 2009
            • 16020

            #6
            Originally posted by NEOH

            Mike,
            I do not see any URL Link ?
            i fixed my original post with this link

            sorry
            Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
            || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
            || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

            solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
            gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

            Comment

            • Sub
              Member
              • Jul 2014
              • 49

              #7
              Ok, will try again to answer the queries above!
              The relevant parameters are set as follows -

              Boost aka absorb = 58.8V (manual's suggested range is 55.2 - 60)
              Float =. 54.6V (52.8 - 56.8)
              Over voltage disconnect = 66v (60 - 68)
              over voltage rectify - 56.6V (56 - 64)

              The only departure from manual instructions is, we selected "Gel" to describe battery type instead of "Sealed", as selecting sealed allowed for an automatic equalisation charge to occur.

              i have checked with my multimeter when the issue happens. At battery terminals, where leads from the cc are connected, when cc is in disconnect mode voltage read 56.8V, then when cc turned on again voltage rose rapidly until over 69V then cc turned off and voltage dropped again to 56.8V.

              i checked at cc PV input terminals also. At the time it was a day with intermittent cloud scudding by. At first there were clouds passing over the sun quite rapidly, and voltage from cc went up and down from 50-60Vs, then as clouds cleared voltage climbed steadily to 70+, and the cc went into disconnect mode.

              i have noted that when cc is in float mode, the cc controls PV voltages of 70 and above not allowing them through to the batteries.

              Haven't been able to recheck multimeter measurements due to continued unsettled weather. August is meant to be the final month of winter here, but we have had a series of icy cold fronts come up from Antarctica to let us know that winter does not want to leave just yet!

              i am not a technician, but it seems to me that a solar charge controller should not allow such high voltages to reach the batteries. In one of my last communications with the supplier, he sort of shrugged and said the cc must be designed like the old "bounce" regulators used in the past. The 60A eTracer cc is relatively inexpensive here at $699 NZ (about $300 US), so I am guessing you get the quality you pay for?

              Thanks, Mike, am looking up Morningstar, although not sure if available in NZ. Outback equipment is, plus the German made cc i mentioned in my first post, except you also have to pay for an external monitor, whereas other makes have them built in.

              My inverter is called an Invertek, made by Rich Electronics, Taiwan, handles 3000W, 48V input, and 2-220V output, and has been working without any issues since installed 12-13 years ago.

              Comment

              • Sub
                Member
                • Jul 2014
                • 49

                #8
                Hi Mike90250, yes Morningstar products are available in NZ. Have found three dealers. Only one gives pricing. The 60A TriStar is available for $1250, plus a
                separate monitor at $270 (all NZ dollars). Strange that the 40A and lower Tristars have onboard LCD screen, but the 60A doesn't - you need a separate monitor! Will check them out.

                Comment

                • Sub
                  Member
                  • Jul 2014
                  • 49

                  #9
                  Started doing ovd briefly this afternoon during a period of clear sky.

                  Got the multimeter onto the pv inputs of the cc, and found it going to just over 80V before disconnecting.

                  Put the mm over the cc to batteries and found it fluctuating from 55 to 60 V + before the sky became overcast again, and not able to check at batteries during a disconnect.

                  Question, how is it possible for a nominal 48V PV array to produce in excess of 80V?

                  To answer Neoh's query, all connections are checked, cleanedand checked for tightness regularly.

                  Comment

                  • Mike90250
                    Moderator
                    • May 2009
                    • 16020

                    #10
                    A "nominal" array for charging a 48V battery, needs at least 65V on a warm day. Adding a MPPT controller, and you need at least 20% more voltage for the MPPT circuit to work. So that's 78V needed from the array. PV panels may only produce 90% of the their Open Circuit (unloaded) voltage, when loaded with a battery, so the Voc spec is always larger then the Vmp (Voltage Max Power) spec. Ans as the array warms up, it's voltage goes lower.


                    With my 2 arrays, one is configured for 115Vdc and the other is 155Vdc. They have long wire runs, and that's best done with high voltage.
                    Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                    Comment

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