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  • New solar panel owner witth a two big questions

    I live in NH. Last July I had installed 48 Panasonic 325W panels and 2 Solar Edge 7600A String inverters. According to my Solar Edge app, I produced 3.54MWh from July 26-Dec 31, 2017 and 4MWh from Jan 1-May 20, 2018. Question #1: Does that sound about right -- about 7.5MWh for 48 panels for 10 months?

    I received two checks from by broker (Knollwood Energy). The first check for the third quarter 2017 was for the sale of two SRECs (2 MWh?) at $10 each for a whopping total of $20. The second check for the fourth quarter 2017 was for $13 for the sale of 1 SREC. So, I've netted $33 for a half year's production. When I was sold the system, I was told that I could expect to offset about 80% of my electric bill (about $3000/year). Clearly the system won't generate $2400 this year, but I'm not even close at say $100. Did SRECs in NH take a dive? Was I sold a bill of goods? Am I set up correctly?

    Help!

    Thanks,

    Terry


  • #2
    SRECs are on top of energy offset. Your energy offset is on the electric bill not your SREC sales. You have saved on the purchase of 7,500kwh from your power company. Who much do you pay for a kWh ?

    no one can tell you if production is appropriate for your system as we have no idea of the azimuth, tilt, or shadows involved.
    OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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    • #3
      If your total output is ~~ +/- 10 % of what the PVWatts model shows for the same orientation and time period, and you have no shade, you're probably on target. This is not an exact science.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post
        SRECs are on top of energy offset. Your energy offset is on the electric bill not your SREC sales. You have saved on the purchase of 7,500kwh from your power company. Who much do you pay for a kWh ?

        no one can tell you if production is appropriate for your system as we have no idea of the azimuth, tilt, or shadows involved.
        Thanks, Butch. There is no energy offset. I'm paying full price for my electric bill (I'm on a dual meter system since the panels are across the street on my garage). My 48 panels have generated $33 in six months -- no offset. This seems like a terrible investment.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by TTraut View Post

          Thanks, Butch. There is no energy offset. I'm paying full price for my electric bill (I'm on a dual meter system since the panels are across the street on my garage). My 48 panels have generated $33 in six months -- no offset. This seems like a terrible investment.
          That is not a dual meter system but rather two separate meters that are not connected on billling
          how much solar credit do you have on the garage billl?
          Have you considered connecting them in billing for virtual net metering? Would be the way to go


          you will never recover savings on SRECs alone in your market.
          Last edited by ButchDeal; 05-21-2018, 07:36 AM.
          OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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          • #6
            Originally posted by TTraut View Post

            Thanks, Butch. There is no energy offset. I'm paying full price for my electric bill (I'm on a dual meter system since the panels are across the street on my garage). My 48 panels have generated $33 in six months -- no offset. This seems like a terrible investment.
            You are missing something here. The point of adding solar is to offset your energy purchase from the power company. SRECs are just a little added bonus, and as you have seen, don't add up to much. As you said in your OP, you've generated 7500kWh, which you've either used and hadn't had to pay the power company for, or exported back to the power company and gotten a credit for (hopefully...).
            Do you get separate electric bills for your house and garage? Or are they the same bill?
            What has your average electric bill been over the past 10 months? Less than it was prior?

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            • #7
              SRECs in NH took a dive. The utilities have convinced the PUC to cook the books to keep the SRECs low. As other mentioned it was just a bit of "frosting" the real savings is net metering.

              I don't know who setup the system but the only way to go is net metering so your production is offsetting your purchases including the surplus generation you don't use. It almost sounds like you have two separate accounts and the account with the generation is just selling power at the wholesale rate while you are buying at the consumer rate. There is virtual net metering for community solar in NH but not sure if you can set that up for an individual account. The bills are bit confusing, one side lists all the power you pulled form the grid including the power you have sent to the grid when you don't need it and the next page shows all the power you sent back to the grid that you didn't need. They then look up at any credit you have due to using less than you were generating in the past and subtract the current amount you are either positive or negative and then bill you the net amount. Note they do hit you up for an electricity consumption tax on every KW that comes from the grid but its minor.

              I and many others have net metering in NH and it works as advertised. I carry a surplus and haven't bought any power in few years. There was a hold on net metering last year but that has been resolved. Note many folks go negative in the winter and have to buy power in the winter but by now you should be cranking out surplus and have no power bill except the line service charge.

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              • #8
                You say that the Solar Edge App is reporting on 7,500kWhr of production over 10mo. A quick PVWatts check for South Facing and 35 deg tilt for Concord, NH says it should produce about 20,500kWhr per year (you'll want to put int the actual numbers) but let's just say you should have produced around 17,000kWhr in the 10mo.

                You do have two SE7600A, is the App only reporting the generation for one of the inverters and not both? Check with your installer. To be honest, you should have used PVWatts to calculate what you should be expecting and checking on this from day one, or at least weekly or monthly, and if things weren't working out like you expected you should have been asking your installer what gives.

                You didn't put this in an area that's in shade half the time did you?

                Also, look at the kWhr you've consume from you electric bill over the past 10mo, and compare that to the same period 1yr ago. It should have dropped significantly, along with getting credited for excess of power generation during periods of time (that's what you're getting the SRECs on top of which is what 3,000kWHrs+ at this point.)

                As for SRECs, the only place that pays any more than a joke amount on SRECs today is Washington DC, If you got into it to make money off of SRECs, you really should have educated yourself first.
                Last edited by TAZ427; 05-21-2018, 04:53 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by TAZ427 View Post
                  it's only what you put back into the grid that you get credited for.
                  That is not true. You get credit for ALL production even self consumed on SRECs
                  OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post

                    That is not true. You get credit for ALL production even self consumed on SRECs
                    My bad, I didn't look too deeply into it after I saw the handful of places that still do it (most in the handful of dollars per 1000kWHr - except DC area) and CA not being one of them. I removed that sentence...

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TAZ427 View Post

                      My bad, I didn't look too deeply into it after I saw the handful of places that still do it (most in the handful of dollars per 1000kWHr - except DC area) and CA not being one of them. I removed that sentence...
                      YEs an SREC = 1MWH of produced power

                      However there are several locations with decent SREC markets like :
                      NJ = $235
                      DC = $380
                      MA = $274


                      PA, MD OH markets are in the $10-$20 range ( I sell in PA from WV)

                      http://www.srectrade.com/srec_market...uction#markets
                      OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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                      • #12
                        Math says your system is 15.6 KW DC output at 100%. I assume that you must deduct about 9% to convert to AC KW with a solaredge inverter. What is the maximum kilowatt hours You ever produced in one day? Multiply that times the number of days you produced. That result will be the most you could expect to produce. Take into account shade and Cloudy weather. Are your expected and actual results Anywhere similar? To get a handle on what you can expect to produce, you should contact a solar neighbor that has panel orientation similar to yours. That's what I did. This should help answer some of your questions.

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                        • #13
                          Hi TTraut,

                          As others have said, there's three principle sources of "income" which will offset the install cost of your system over time:

                          1) A one time 30% Federal tax credit (you get 30% of the total cost of your installed PV or PV storage system (with roofing if needed) as a tax rebate in the following year after installation (provided your total tax liability exceeds this rebate). This is a sizable, one time rebate.

                          2) Net metering offsets in which a bidirectional meter installed by your PoCo records both generation (from your PV system) and consumption from your home and then essentially subtracts generation from your usage to essentially "net meter" your residual consumption. This is complicated by the fact that you likely have two different consumption meters -- one for your garage and one for your home. it sounds like all of the generation credits are going to the garage which probably has very little usage. You need to contact your PoCo and get these credits applied to your home. Whether or not this can be done "virtually" seems to vary by state. Worse case, you may have to re-wire the garage (or house) to be fed through a common service and meter. There are a few additional complicating factors -- "system anniversary date" and your specific PoCo rate plate -- which can complicate how net metering credits get applied and/or sold.

                          3) SREC's -- whose value varies widely by state. In most states, they are nearly worthless, save for the 3 or 4 which were listed above. I live in NJ and am currently getting ~$230 per MWh. But in neighboring PA for example, they are only worth around $10-20. SREC's are an artificial market whose value depends entirely on legislation, supply, and demand.

                          In my case, over the past year my 12.2kW DC system (also SolarEdge) has generated roughly 12-13 MWh. I have a fair amount of shading, and a sub optimal pitch (20 degrees)
                          For which I have earned:

                          1) $12,000 one time Federal tax rebate
                          2) ~$1680 in electric bill savings (12,000 kWh * $0.14/kWh (includes generation and transmission cost)) -- due to net metering deductions in month usage
                          3) ~$2640 in SREC's (12 MWh * $220 per)

                          Best case, though it will still take me ~8 years or so to break even.

                          You need to get your net metering issue squared away with your installer and Poco. If your credits are just being sold wholesale (rather than offsetting your usage) you'll never make any headway.

                          -Jonathan

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