If a system is using a SMA inverter (ex. 6000TL-US arranged in 3 arrays 7,7,5) and you want to keep an eye on the panels for premature failure.
Which monitoring equipment would you need to add and how would it present? I had my reasons for not going with micro-inverters.
When my dealer/installer brought out the panels, they did not bring them laying down flat on a pallet in a truck. They stood them up on end in a pickup truck and strapped them against
the rack or window. There was some kind of padding, so I was told (probably opened flattened cardboard boxes on the bed and around the window).
Long story short they installed half the panels, then felt the need to move the truck a little closer to the edge of the roof. They were in my driveway, so you would think 2ft wouldn't be that difficult.
Of course the panels were unstrapped by now and when he stepped on the brake after rolling back the 2ft. the remaining 9 panels kept going and dominoed onto the floor of the truck.
I of course don't know any of this until they had to show up an additional day because the first panel to hit the floor actually shattered the glass in a corner and they took it back to the warehouse and had to bring out another the next day (completely different serial #). I'm always at work so I wasn't seeing any of this, neither was she.
Anyway the concern is either the fall or the 60min highway trip caused micro cracks in the solder that will reveal themselves. But when, 2-3-5-7-24yrs?
I complained all during the addition 5 months of the install. Failed inspection 4x's and had even more trouble with having their elec. subcontractor to actually come out and relocate/upgrade the panel and run wiring.
Still trying to keep a long story short... complained to no end, must have-no exaggeration, just under 100 emails to installer owner and panel manufacturer. They stood their ground and said the panels were tough (hey they must be as I found a foot print on one after I got up there-not even smart enough to wipe it off). Everything fired up fine but I still demanded they individually test each panel and just not a system test (3 arrays 7,7,5). All they did was a multi-meter test of the voltage and gave me an csv file (panel #1 64V, etc...)
This is when I learned a dirty little secret of the solar industry, "degradation" and how you can't monitor it. I asked how can I monitor the degradation they boast about on their sell sheets with the software they provide me. They said I can't. They assure you they are monitoring at their office with their sophisticated software that will send them alerts if anything is amiss and the manufacturer receives a feed as well. The dealer said they will likely notice something before I will and will come out to change any panel. Righhhhhhhhht!
They said the only other thing I could do if I felt the panel was no performing was to remove it myself (I purchased my system) and send it to a lab for STC testing and pay for it all upfront of course. And if the panel failed they would reimburse me for everything. But until their software tells them something is wrong they can't do anything because it is performing.
My concern is that it degrades a little faster then normal because of my unique install experience. I think 3-4 panels could fall below the ANNUAL degradation specs but never be seen, especially if they are on separate strings. 6 panels could easily hide a barely sub-par 7th panel. Then after the warranty complete failure, no 30-40yrs. for me. Obviously complete failures early on will be easier to see even on a string, though probably rather difficult with the generic consumption/production software they give you.
So any ideas on monitoring or are we going with they're built to withstand hail storms so they should be fine.
I was looking at the Sunny Sensor Box but they have discontinued it and I figured there was a reason; either it was difficult to keep calibrated or they didn't want you to know. That then sent me down the rabbit hole of how do I prove the Sunny Sensor Box accuracy if I'm filing a panel claim. What if the closest official weather station near me, Long Beach, CA experienced different irradiance on the day in question, etc...
Maybe checking quarterly with a thermal camera for hot spots might be something to consider?
Enough of my late night ramblings, any input appreciated.
Which monitoring equipment would you need to add and how would it present? I had my reasons for not going with micro-inverters.
When my dealer/installer brought out the panels, they did not bring them laying down flat on a pallet in a truck. They stood them up on end in a pickup truck and strapped them against
the rack or window. There was some kind of padding, so I was told (probably opened flattened cardboard boxes on the bed and around the window).
Long story short they installed half the panels, then felt the need to move the truck a little closer to the edge of the roof. They were in my driveway, so you would think 2ft wouldn't be that difficult.
Of course the panels were unstrapped by now and when he stepped on the brake after rolling back the 2ft. the remaining 9 panels kept going and dominoed onto the floor of the truck.
I of course don't know any of this until they had to show up an additional day because the first panel to hit the floor actually shattered the glass in a corner and they took it back to the warehouse and had to bring out another the next day (completely different serial #). I'm always at work so I wasn't seeing any of this, neither was she.
Anyway the concern is either the fall or the 60min highway trip caused micro cracks in the solder that will reveal themselves. But when, 2-3-5-7-24yrs?
I complained all during the addition 5 months of the install. Failed inspection 4x's and had even more trouble with having their elec. subcontractor to actually come out and relocate/upgrade the panel and run wiring.
Still trying to keep a long story short... complained to no end, must have-no exaggeration, just under 100 emails to installer owner and panel manufacturer. They stood their ground and said the panels were tough (hey they must be as I found a foot print on one after I got up there-not even smart enough to wipe it off). Everything fired up fine but I still demanded they individually test each panel and just not a system test (3 arrays 7,7,5). All they did was a multi-meter test of the voltage and gave me an csv file (panel #1 64V, etc...)
This is when I learned a dirty little secret of the solar industry, "degradation" and how you can't monitor it. I asked how can I monitor the degradation they boast about on their sell sheets with the software they provide me. They said I can't. They assure you they are monitoring at their office with their sophisticated software that will send them alerts if anything is amiss and the manufacturer receives a feed as well. The dealer said they will likely notice something before I will and will come out to change any panel. Righhhhhhhhht!
They said the only other thing I could do if I felt the panel was no performing was to remove it myself (I purchased my system) and send it to a lab for STC testing and pay for it all upfront of course. And if the panel failed they would reimburse me for everything. But until their software tells them something is wrong they can't do anything because it is performing.
My concern is that it degrades a little faster then normal because of my unique install experience. I think 3-4 panels could fall below the ANNUAL degradation specs but never be seen, especially if they are on separate strings. 6 panels could easily hide a barely sub-par 7th panel. Then after the warranty complete failure, no 30-40yrs. for me. Obviously complete failures early on will be easier to see even on a string, though probably rather difficult with the generic consumption/production software they give you.
So any ideas on monitoring or are we going with they're built to withstand hail storms so they should be fine.
I was looking at the Sunny Sensor Box but they have discontinued it and I figured there was a reason; either it was difficult to keep calibrated or they didn't want you to know. That then sent me down the rabbit hole of how do I prove the Sunny Sensor Box accuracy if I'm filing a panel claim. What if the closest official weather station near me, Long Beach, CA experienced different irradiance on the day in question, etc...
Maybe checking quarterly with a thermal camera for hot spots might be something to consider?
Enough of my late night ramblings, any input appreciated.
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