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Joe Nall 2018

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  • #16
    Originally posted by azdave View Post
    for many years as a demo pilot for Hacker Brushless and Aero-Model.
    What happened to Hacker, or who bought them out?

    Once upon a time Hacker use to be top of the line. Someone bought them out and quality went to down. I suspect Chi-Coms. Similar thing happened to Thunder Power RC, they use to make the best high performance LiPo's. Now their batteries are one of the lowest performing on the market. Still the most expensive, but basically crap today.

    I do not mind paying up for high quality, but not many quality manufactures left. Constantly on the look out for motor upgrades on my Precision Aerobatics and Extreme flight models, but none seem to exist. Best I can find are the ones Extreme Flight and Precision Aerobatics sell with their name on it. Do not know who makes their motors. Vendors are not saying.
    Last edited by Sunking; 05-15-2018, 10:16 AM.
    MSEE, PE

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Sunking View Post
      What happened to Hacker, or who bought them out?
      No one bought them out. A line of genuine high-end products are still made in Germany by Rainer Hacker. The glut of Chinese Hacker copies entering the market forced them to take production of their high volume lines to China or lose out completely on those sales. That is when things really went downhill as his IP was lost and impostor motors flooded the internet. It hasn't been the same since. The availability of cheap Lipo batteries and cheap motors means hardly anyone will pay for highly efficient, quality motors these days. Customers would rather buy bigger batteries or replace the low quality motors 2-3 times. It's the Wal-Mart mentality of the world.

      Aero-Model in the USA closed their doors a few years ago when the owner stepped up to running their 4th generation family businesses world-wide. A different company picked up the Hacker distribution rights in North America.

      Dave W. Gilbert AZ
      6.63kW grid-tie owner

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      • #18
        Thanks Dave. There are some folks like myself willing to pay up for certain models. It is one thing to use a cheap motor on a $150 Foamy with no time invested in building it and if crashed can easily be repaired with Hot Glue at the field in 5 minutes. So yeah there is a big market for that.

        OTOH pros and builders with a thousand or more dollars tied up in a Balsa Model with a hundred or more hours invested in building it will pay up for quality. You know as well as I do some models cost 10's of Thousand$ and some pushing $100K. Sometimes wished I was a pro and got my stuff for free. I would play more golf and fly more.

        So in your opinion, who makes the best LiPos say in 3 and 4S 2000 to 3000 mah range. My answer may surprise you. Right now for the price I would say Turnigy Nano-Tech, best performer is Gens Ace. What I really do not know is who actually makes the LiPo' other than there are just a few manufactures that make all of them. Example I know Kokam makes cells and one of the better manufactures, but do not know what brands they make for who.
        Last edited by Sunking; 05-15-2018, 02:38 PM.
        MSEE, PE

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Sunking View Post
          Thanks Dave. There are some folks like myself willing to pay up for certain models. It is one thing to use a cheap motor on a $150 Foamy with no time invested in building it and if crashed can easily be repaired with Hot Glue at the field in 5 minutes. So yeah there is a big market for that.

          OTOH pros and builders with a thousand or more dollars tied up in a Balsa Model with a hundred or more hours invested in building it will pay up for quality. You know as well as I do some models cost 10's of Thousand$ and some pushing $100K. Sometimes wished I was a pro and got my stuff for free. I would play more golf and fly more.

          So in your opinion, who makes the best LiPos say in 3 and 4S 2000 to 3000 mah range. My answer may surprise you. Right now for the price I would say Turnigy Nano-Tech, best performer is Gens Ace. What I really do not know is who actually makes the LiPo' other than there are just a few manufactures that make all of them. Example I know Kokam makes cells and one of the better manufactures, but do not know what brands they make for who.
          I have very good luck with Turnigy Nano-Tech LiPo's. Also both the prices and delivery times went down once Hobby King opened up their US based warehouses.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

            I have very good luck with Turnigy Nano-Tech LiPo's. Also both the prices and delivery times went down once Hobby King opened up their US based warehouses.
            They are one of the few that actually come close to discharge C-Rates. I have a few with at least 50-cycles on them and still have specified capacity and discharge rate which is unheard of. No puffing either.

            I have TP LiPo's with less than 10 cycles, only test at 75% capacity, 5C discharge, and puffed like popcorn.
            Last edited by Sunking; 05-15-2018, 04:51 PM.
            MSEE, PE

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            • #21
              I've been out of the hobby too long to have the most recent dirt on battery manufacturers but "back in the day" I used to see Charlie from Thunder Power quite often. I even designed their logo with the little lighting bolt. We printed his first battery labels at the company I run in Phoenix.

              We (Aero-Model) first met Charlie at the annual TOC event in Las Vegas where we were doing electric flight demos for the gas engine crowd using Hacker motors and state-of-the-art NiMh batteries. Charlie got involved when he saw the limitations of our batteries and we soon all had CCCV power supplies on the workbench and began using his proto-type batteries in our R/C planes. Man...have things come a long way since then.

              I have no problem with Turnigy batteries and just bought some 3S 8000mah packs to use on my winch when I'm out retrieving barn-find Corvairs.
              Dave W. Gilbert AZ
              6.63kW grid-tie owner

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              • #22
                Brings back memories of flying my T-Rex 450 and T-Rex 500 around in lazy circles between the trees. (Never was a 3D flyer.) I still have them, but my interest in that particular hobby diminished to the point where the last crash (servo went out as the T-Rex 450 was heading straight toward me) never got fixed. It's several hours' work to rebuild the head on a collective-pitch RC heli, plus at least $40 worth of parts that you have to order online because nobody seems to fly anything but drones and planes anymore.

                The T-Rex 500 is an impressive beast just to see hovering in front of you. It makes quite a racket! Alas, the motor controller gave up the ghost and--again, interest has dropped off--never got replaced.

                Maybe this summer, in between improvements to the solar installation.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by BackwoodsEE View Post
                  nobody seems to fly anything but drones and planes anymore.
                  Head and hand chopper offers scare me. Took me a couple months on a simulator to even be able to fly a computer model good enough to take off and land somewhere I intended. Learning how to fly live models is expensive and time consuming with lots of crashes.

                  Learning to fly a plane is pretty easy today with Gyro stabilized systems. Sadly both club memberships and sales of planes and helicopters is down significantly. Walk into a RC Hobby Shop today and you will mostly see cars//truck and fricking DROIDS. In the back dark corner you will find a few planes and choppers.

                  Myself and other enthusiast have a disdain for Droids. It takes absolutely no skill to fly a Droid, and bringing the goberment down on the hobby. We now have to register with the FAA and get a Tail Number all because of the threat of Droids. Buy a Droid, load with weapons, and you are ready to kill from the comfort of your home or halfway around the world. Wanna spy on your neighbors and get naked picture of a hot girl sun bathing , no problem, all you need is a Droid and broadcast live pictures to the world. Who needs AMA insurance, FCC over site, and a club to fly with a Droid.

                  Sill PO'ed at Joe Nall event. So far less than a 1/4 inch of rain with a cool passing shower. I hope the Event Organizers are chewing their fingernails off to the bone and bleeding. Vendors, local biz, and the world public lost millions of dollars. What a bunch of PC cowards.

                  MSEE, PE

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                    Myself and other enthusiast have a disdain for Droids.
                    I just bought two at work for inspecting towers and antennas. I can get close enough to read antenna model and serial numbers and see kinks in coax. I put them in the same toy category as ARFs and RTFs. Little flying skill needed and no building skill. It's no wonder many people are unskilled today. I had a 28 year old guy at work ask me which tube of epoxy he should use, tube "A" or "B". I don't think he ever built a model airplane.
                    Last edited by sdold; 05-17-2018, 02:28 AM.
                    Steve

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by sdold View Post
                      ..... I had a 28 year old guy at work ask me which tube of epoxy he should use, tube "A" or "B". I don't think he ever built a model airplane.

                      smear a bit of A on one side, and a bit of B on the other side and wiggle them together ?

                      Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                      || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                      || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                      solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                      gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                        Head and hand chopper offers scare me. Took me a couple months on a simulator to even be able to fly a computer model good enough to take off and land somewhere I intended. Learning how to fly live models is expensive and time consuming with lots of crashes.
                        I once flew my T-Rex 500 into a small pine tree and it took the top clean off, the carbon-fiber blades slicing right through an inch of wood. They are beasts.

                        The big breakthrough for me was finally getting the hover orientation right at all angles of the compass. Your brain has to learn to subconsciously convert the stick movements to fit which way the heli is pointing, fully reversed if it's pointing at you and (hardest of all for me), translated 90 degrees if you're looking at one side of it. Lots of crashes, both simulated and real, were involved in the process.

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                        • #27
                          Orientation is difficult in all RC aircraft. Some more so than others. Older Quads (Droids) can be the most difficult with a basic shape of a box. Although that can be easily mitigated with their newer flight system. Does not matter where the so called nose of the Droid is facing. Pull the right stick back, and the Drone comes to you. Push the stick forward, and the Drone goes away from you. Mommy calls you home, press the Home Button and the Droid returns and lands where it took off from. Droid Navigation is so advanced, no pilot is needed. Just program the light plan, carry a bomb and explode all from the comfort of your living room chair in another country.
                          MSEE, PE

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
                            smear a bit of A on one side, and a bit of B on the other side and wiggle them together ?
                            At least he asked, if he hadn't he would still be waiting for it to harden.

                            Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                            Droid Navigation is so advanced, no pilot is needed. Just program the light plan, carry a bomb and explode all from the comfort of your living room chair in another country.
                            The thing that bothers me the most is that they can be scaled up to carry big payloads. The other thing is that whatever mischief they cause will will drag all RC modelers in with them and the hobby will become more regulated and restricted. To only government sanctioned flying fields, for example, all of which would do nothing to stop the guy building a drone-bomb in his basement.
                            Steve

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by sdold View Post
                              The thing that bothers me the most is that they can be scaled up to carry big payloads. The other thing is that whatever mischief they cause will will drag all RC modelers in with them and the hobby will become more regulated and restricted.
                              All ready started Steve, All RC models regardless of size require FAA Tail Numbers.

                              Imagine that application to the FAA. This Achmed the Dead Terrorist, 'I need to register my drone and get a Tail Number SO I CAN KILL YOU".

                              Okay joking aside here is the real scary part. You can piece part and make a Drone. A quad only needs a X -Frame frame anyone can easily make in a garage. Everything else can be bought with cash here and there and almost untraceable. For less than a thousand dollars build a drone with 10 mile range, 50 pound payload, and camera on board to watch from your living room chair in another country. Easy Peazy and a kid could do it. With the small cross-sectional area, quite, almost undetectable until it is way too late like around an airport or sporting event.
                              Last edited by Sunking; 05-17-2018, 04:18 PM.
                              MSEE, PE

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Sunking View Post

                                All ready started Steve, All RC models regardless of size require FAA Tail Numbers.

                                Imagine that application to the FAA. This Achmed the Dead Terrorist, 'I need to register my drone and get a Tail Number SO I CAN KILL YOU".
                                Well the Tail number is there to identify the person that owns the RC device if it fell out of the sky and hit something.

                                Oh wait why would a terrorist care???

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