CA Residents - Hyundai wants to buy your electricity

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  • sensij
    Solar Fanatic
    • Sep 2014
    • 5074

    CA Residents - Hyundai wants to buy your electricity

    For those who are interested in EV's, Hyundai released the Ioniq this year in a Hybrid and an EV version. There is a 3rd version, a plug-in hybrid, that is expected later this year. The hybrid is a relatively conventional car at this point, competitive with the Prius, but the EV, with a 28 kWh battery and 124 mi of rated range, is where it gets interesting.

    In the USA, the EV is only available in CA, from a handful of dealers around LA (Temecula and Laguna Nigel dealerships are the closest to San Diego), with very limited allocations. They are offering it for sale in three different trim levels, or on a 3 year lease. They call the lease an "Unlimited+ Subscription", and it includes a few novel elements:

    1) Unlimited miles.
    2) Free maintenance and wear items up to 50,000 mi per year.
    3) Up to 50,000 mi over three years, Hyundai tracks the mileage each month, and gives a credit for the cost of the electricity used to charge it . The formula is $0.1844 / kWh, assumes 4 mi / kWh, with the cost of electricity following what the EIA publishes for average residential cost of electricity in CA (0.1844 was January's number, I'm not sure yet how often they adjust it)

    The upfront cost is $2500, which should be rebated by CA Clean Vehicle Rebate Project. Rebate funding for this year is exhausted, but the source is the cap and trade program which was extended from 2020 to 2031 a couple weeks ago, and if this year follows the same track as last year, new funds should become available by September.

    The monthly cost for the base trim is $275 + taxes, about $297 for me.

    It look a couple months of shopping / talking to dealers, but last week one was made available to me and I made the trek up to Mission Hills (north of Pasadena) to take possession. The unlimited miles is a big deal for me, since my wife commutes 60 mi daily and over 20k mi yearly, so the charging rebate from Hyundai could be ~$62/ mo at current electricity prices. Since I've got a PV system that was oversized (at low cost, DIY), that essentially knocks the cost of the car down to $235 / mo, it provides a meaningful reduction in total cost per mi relative to what she had been driving.

    The car is *nice*... I already drive a Chevy Spark EV, which isn't much more than a glorified golf cart. This is a real car, with space to seat 5, decent trunk space, while still preserving the feel of driving an EV. Going from the 85ish miles of range of the Spark to the 124 mi is just enough to make it possible to get out for evening activities anywhere in the city, on top of the commuting miles. Not too often, but a couple times a month, I've been finding that we've had to modify plans to deal with the Spark's range, and I'm hoping that this is able to kick the range anxiety completely.

    Some dealers, recognizing they have a hot item for a certain niche of the market, have been jacking up the price with dealer add-ons... the first base model I was offered last month was going to be $350 / mo + tax, which I negotiated down to $305 / mo + tax but still passed on, holding out that one would eventually show up without the add-ons. Each dealer is managing it differently... a couple will take deposits, some will maintain a waiting list, and some claim to be strictly first come first serve. InsideEV's reports 157 total released into the USA through July, and production has apparently been hampered since global demand was under-estimated, and the battery production was not in place at the needed level.
    Last edited by sensij; 08-02-2017, 02:27 PM.
    CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx
  • SunEagle
    Super Moderator
    • Oct 2012
    • 15123

    #2
    Why is CA getting the deals for EV's and Hybrids and other states not? I am feeling left out in sunny Florida.

    Comment

    • peakbagger
      Solar Fanatic
      • Jun 2010
      • 1561

      #3
      These are "compliance cars" sold at a loss because California requires manufacturers to sell a certain percentage of their cars that are zero emissions. Its a large enough market that they really cant pull out so they sell the bare number of electric cars at a loss. With respect to Florida, is it a big enough market that the manufacturer would want to pay to play?

      Comment

      • SunEagle
        Super Moderator
        • Oct 2012
        • 15123

        #4
        Originally posted by peakbagger
        These are "compliance cars" sold at a loss because California requires manufacturers to sell a certain percentage of their cars that are zero emissions. Its a large enough market that they really cant pull out so they sell the bare number of electric cars at a loss. With respect to Florida, is it a big enough market that the manufacturer would want to pay to play?
        I have seen a number of Volts, Tesla's and Leaf's running around my area but do not see a major advertising campaign to sell EVs or even hybrids. Although the Prius has a big footprint down here but they have also been on the market longer.

        I guess EV's haven't been a big draw in Florida yet. Maybe due to the range anxiety or high cost of the early models.

        Comment

        • J.P.M.
          Solar Fanatic
          • Aug 2013
          • 14921

          #5
          Originally posted by SunEagle

          I have seen a number of Volts, Tesla's and Leaf's running around my area but do not see a major advertising campaign to sell EVs or even hybrids. Although the Prius has a big footprint down here but they have also been on the market longer.

          I guess EV's haven't been a big draw in Florida yet. Maybe due to the range anxiety or high cost of the early models.
          Maybe snowbirds don't like them so much, being new fangled technology and all that, and/or particularly for those who drive from the north for winter (charging concerns/range anxiety).

          Comment

          • adoublee
            Solar Fanatic
            • Aug 2009
            • 251

            #6
            I hope you will keep us posted about your opinions of the vehicle. It was advertised that Hyundai may might actually be interested in selling this car to the masses. I hope it is offered outside of CA soon.

            Do you know if there is any battery warranty that applies to mileage fade versus complete failure?

            If the plug-in hybrid was available today, would you still have gone full EV?

            Comment

            • adoublee
              Solar Fanatic
              • Aug 2009
              • 251

              #7
              Also - does your vehicle have a 12V LA battery, or do they step down the drive pack for 12V power? Or, do they a 12V LA battery with OPTION to recharge it from drive pack in emergency - I feel like I have seen all of the above described and would love to not have a LA battery to maintain.

              Comment

              • sensij
                Solar Fanatic
                • Sep 2014
                • 5074

                #8

                I understand the battery degradation warranty, at least for UK sales, to be 70% for 8 years / 125k mi. The forum talk is that the first couple years of degradation are compensated by increasing the availability capacity, but I haven't seen any data yet from anyone tapping into the control system to see what is going on.

                Most of the distribution of this car has been going to overseas sales (the lease program is a USA only program), only 200 on the road in the US through July, according to insideevs. Based on what the dealers are saying, none have been sold outright here in CA, all of them have been going out on this lease. Given the terms of the program, that doesn't seem too surprising. The "message" is that it was originally intended for full US distribution, but that global demand was way above expectations so they've cut back here. It is hard to know what's true.

                The BEV is a great fit for me right now, and I like the relative simplicity compared to a PHEV. From what I understand, the PHEV version of this will have 27 mi of electric range, not enough to cover my wife's commute, so the value equation doesn't work out quite as well for us.

                It includes a 12 V "auxiliary" battery under the hood to power the wipers, lights, control electronics, etc. The battery is charged by a step down from the high voltage battery, and even when the car is off / not used, every 72 hours the 12 V battery status is checked and topped off if needed. The hybrid model went with Li-Po for the auxiliary battery, but it looks like the EV has conventional LA under the hood (big Pb printed on the side).

                The car is a huge step up over a pure compliance car like the Spark EV. Both have a residual value at lease end of ~$13.3k, but the Spark makes no sense to consider at that price, and this one, depending on where the market is 3 years from now, might be worth it. The dealer said that he doesn't think Hyundai will allow these to be sold at lease end (perhaps to control warranty risk?), but the lease paperwork doesn't indicate that.


                CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

                Comment

                • J.P.M.
                  Solar Fanatic
                  • Aug 2013
                  • 14921

                  #9
                  I'm in a conundrum situation. Don't feel as if EV's are evolved enough yet for my situation, maybe 2-3 years or so, but much longer than that and I may a road hazard due to old fartdom. Being in something of the distribution phase of life, if that Porsche EV was out now, I'd be real tempted as it looks like a viable alternative to the Tesla Model S, but I'm not sure a 3-5 yr. wait works for me.

                  The situation continues to evolve.

                  Comment

                  • OftheSeven
                    Member
                    • Jan 2015
                    • 50

                    #10
                    Originally posted by sensij
                    For those who are interested in EV's, Hyundai released the Ioniq this year in a Hybrid and an EV version. There is a 3rd version, a plug-in hybrid, that is expected later this year. The hybrid is a relatively conventional car at this point, competitive with the Prius, but the EV, with a 28 kWh battery and 124 mi of rated range, is where it gets interesting.

                    In the USA, the EV is only available in CA, from a handful of dealers around LA (Temecula and Laguna Nigel dealerships are the closest to San Diego), with very limited allocations. They are offering it for sale in three different trim levels, or on a 3 year lease. They call the lease an "Unlimited+ Subscription", and it includes a few novel elements:

                    1) Unlimited miles.
                    2) Free maintenance and wear items up to 50,000 mi per year.
                    3) Up to 50,000 mi over three years, Hyundai tracks the mileage each month, and gives a credit for the cost of the electricity used to charge it . The formula is $0.1844 / kWh, assumes 4 mi / kWh, with the cost of electricity following what the EIA publishes for average residential cost of electricity in CA (0.1844 was January's number, I'm not sure yet how often they adjust it)
                    .....

                    Hey Sensi,

                    I've been looking at the IONIQ EV as well. See very limited quantity (1 per dealer) and only in black, maybe white. I emailed Hyundai Anaheim but haven't heard back.
                    I just turned in my CMAX Energi lease and already have a Bolt lease.

                    Attracted to the unlimited miles and bill credit for charging. Did you compare it to the Bolt? I believe Bolt lease deals of $250ish should be available during the Labor Day sales but the Hyundai looks enticing, especially with nicer interior than the Bolt.

                    I already used two CVRP rebates so I don't know if I'm still eligible. Need to verify.
                    Last edited by OftheSeven; 08-31-2017, 02:07 PM.

                    Comment

                    • cebury
                      Solar Fanatic
                      • Sep 2011
                      • 646

                      #11
                      SensiJ, so you have had it a month. How does the wife like the new ride? Any change in satisfaction, vehicle performance, buyers remorse?

                      Comment

                      • sensij
                        Solar Fanatic
                        • Sep 2014
                        • 5074

                        #12
                        Bolt lease was a non-starter for me because of the mileage quota.. as of 8/27, we were up to 1965 mi on the Ioniq.

                        My wife and I both really like the car. No buyer's remorse, but we've both found one aspect we don't like... stopping distance seems terrible. I actually rear-ended another car a couple weeks ago, so I'll get to find out soon how much a bumper repair will cost. It seems like maybe it doesn't hand off enough brake control from the regen to mechanical pads when the brake pedal is pressed hard, but, you know, I'd rather blame the car than my driving in any case. My wife has noticed it too, and she isn't really the type to make something up just to make me feel better.

                        CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

                        Comment

                        • sensij
                          Solar Fanatic
                          • Sep 2014
                          • 5074

                          #13
                          Ok, it looks like I'm not imagining it... here was what Car and Driver wrote:

                          Trying to slow the Ioniq Electric is an entirely different matter, however, with the hatch's low-rolling-resistance tires contributing to an inexcusably long 194-foot stopping distance from 70 mph (versus 181 feet for the Chevy Bolt EV). Even worse, we found that the brake pedal lost any sense of mechanical feel in panic braking and that the Ioniq's brakes suffered from noticeable fade after repeated use. Nevertheless, in typical, nonemergency braking situations, the electric hatchback comes to a halt with little drama.
                          The lack of mechanical feel is why my wife described her experience panic braking as "trying to brake on ice".
                          Last edited by sensij; 09-01-2017, 05:40 PM.
                          CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

                          Comment

                          • sensij
                            Solar Fanatic
                            • Sep 2014
                            • 5074

                            #14
                            One other glitch... Hyundai Finance still has no record of my lease, and I haven't gotten anything in the mail yet. I'm not sure yet if there is a paperwork delay at the dealership, but so far, no way to make a payment, see my account status, or verify that the charging credits are being tracked correctly.
                            CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

                            Comment

                            • cebury
                              Solar Fanatic
                              • Sep 2011
                              • 646

                              #15

                              Originally posted by sensij
                              Ok, it looks like I'm not imagining it... here was what Car and Driver wrote:



                              The lack of mechanical feel is why my wife described her experience panic braking as "trying to brake on ice".

                              Wow. Very interesting... and discouraging for us tailgaters. I mean THE tailgaters. That is a deal breaker for me, maybe not my wife. Hope it doesnt cost you too much.

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