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envoy enphase lost reporting, power noise filter recommendation needed

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  • envoy enphase lost reporting, power noise filter recommendation needed

    I know, that problem has been discussed several times, but I still was not able to find an answer.
    Several weeks ago we replaced a circuit board on a device, not related to the solar system.
    Suddenly, all enphase microconverters stopped reporting. If I unplug that device, the reporting is back.
    An obvious solution is to install a plug-in emi power filter, capable of filtering out 144Khz (Enphase frequency) noise to the outlet where I plug that device in.
    However, I do have a trouble finding a capable filter. Enphase only lists high powered 250V inline filters, but I need a simple plug-in filter, 110V, 10A.
    I took a chance and purchased Simply Automated Plug-In Noise Filter (ZNF10A-P). It did help a bit. I've got some of the reporting back - about half of the converters are usually report.
    But my point is, I cannot just blindly purchase filters one by one, until I find a match. It'll take a lot of time and money. And most of them do not list a filtering graph or a full spec listed.
    Thus, I'd like to ask a question - Has anyone experienced a similar problem and can provide a recommendation for such as plug-in filter?
    TIA

  • #2
    My experience with such consumer plug in devices (surge protectors, etc) is they charge a LOT of $
    and put the absolute minimum of actual performance circuitry inside. No doubt there are exceptions,
    they should provide a performance curve.

    There are plenty of component EMI filters available, with curves you can check in advance. They
    are made by OKAYA, NEMIC-LAMBDA, CORCOM, SCHAFFNER, and others. You can brouse
    these and others at webs for MOUSER ELECTRONICS and many others. They may be a double
    thumb size metal box with connections on both ends, that must be wired between the device and
    the line, best inside the device for good filter & shield grounding. My favorite is a power entry
    module such as FN9222S-15-06 (Mouser 631-FN9222S-15/06) which your IEC computer cord
    plug goes into on one end, and being mounted in the device, the other end supplies power to the
    device. Might directly replace an unfiltered version IEC input. The performance to $ ratio is good.

    Perhaps the offending device does not need 10A; a good 1A or 3A filter costs a lot less than a
    good 10A filter. Bruce Roe

    Comment


    • #3
      Try contacting the TED company........

      http://www.theenergydetective.com/about-us

      They use PLC like Enphase and I believe at the same or near frequencies. I know this because Enphase told me that their communication system and the TED system will conflict with each other.

      The TED people sell a plug in filter that I believe will work in your situation.

      https://www.theenergydetective.com/downloads/Filter.pdf

      Comment


      • #4
        You could try a higher quality, though still inexpensive, noise filtering surge suppressor such as the isobar series from Tripplite

        https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Pr...iplite+isoblok
        https://www.tripplite.com/isobar-2-o...ght~ULTRABLOK/

        Or, worse comes to worse, an isolation transformer

        https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Is...keywords=IS250
        https://www.tripplite.com/products/i...ransformers~25

        Just curious, what is the device that is causing interference? Do you really need it or can it be replaced with something else? Is it physically close to your breaker box or the roof? You might also need to shield the device in a Faraday cage.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Urod. You are running into the classic issue of external electrical noise interfering with the envoy <-> microinverter communication. You identified that a new piece of equipment introduced enough changes in your home electrical noise generation to prevent the envoy from communicating to the micros. As suggested above you can try the consumer level units like triplite or high end equipment like brickwall.com products to filter 144kHz noise from equipment from making it to your home power grid. Brickwalls are amazing - I use them to protect expensive equipment at my home. Personally if I was you I would try a triplite isobar and it it does not work, at least you have a good quality power strip for some other use that was not too expensive.

          As a hobbyist you can get some good filters and roll your own. I used a CorCom filter ($35 or so) in my communications box to prevent 144kHz noise from the network equipment from getting to my envoy, look on Digikey for a number of filters any hobbyist can choose from. These come with attenuation curves and will filter far more than any of the surge protector power strips. Running in common mode (120V - just 1/2 of the filter) expect about 20dB at 150kHz.

          Thus you are in this approach trying to filter the noise generated by each piece of equipment prior to that noise getting on your home grid. Do this for enough equipment and the Envoy will communicate with the micros with a nice clean signal. I view this a wack-a-mole approach.

          A different approach - one that has higher upfront costs and time - is to change the problem by isolating the Envoy and microinverters from the rest of your house - and use a higher power filter to stop at one place all of the noise from reaching that solar system. That is the approach that the documents on Enphase's site discuss and it will solve the problem if implemented correctly. If you already have a dedicated sub panel for your Enphase solar system and the Envoy is using that sub panel - this is easy to implement - just make sure your filter is sized to comply with 705.12(D)(2)(3). If you don't have an existing dedicated sub panel for the solar system - then you are looking at adding that so the Envoy and micros are isolated from noise from the rest of the home. Sometimes just putting the Envoy on that sub panel will fix your communications issues and you won't need a filter. And if you need to add a subpanel then make sure you follow NEC, local codes and permitting.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks everybody, I fixed the issue by a simple DIY project.
            a filter - http://www.mouser.com/search/Product...1-FN9244-10-06
            a connector - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
            a project box - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
            soldered parts together and placed it in that project box.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by tyab View Post
              A different approach - one that has higher upfront costs and time...If you already have a dedicated sub panel for your Enphase solar system and the Envoy is using that sub panel - this is easy to implement
              This is the approach I used and it worked well. I ran an outlet for the Envoy off of the microinverters' sub panel. I still had zero bars on the envoy, so I wrapped each leg from the sub panel to the main panel a couple of turns around a ferrite toroid for each leg, but not the neutral. I instantly had full bars on the Envoy.

              They were about 2" diameter cores, I wish I knew the mix but I just grabbed them out of a box of toroids that I had, so I'm not sure what they were.

              Comment


              • #8
                tripplite ISObar's
                MSEE, PE

                Comment


                • #9
                  Isolating the enphase system from the home panel is a good option (I get five green bars from all 28 micros):

                  https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/forum...-from-pv-panel

                  I use two sections of 50A EPCOS / TDK filter (B84143A50R105) $150 Mouser or Digikey in a dedicated PV panel Square D (home line series) Load Center HOM1224L125PGCVP, $41 at Lowes explained in more detail in my 10/2016 post linked above.

                  It is a little more work, and more expensive. However, with full isolation, you don't have worry about future changes in the home effecting the Envoy system (or, the envoy bleeding over into some home system).
                  Last edited by idnominal; 08-07-2017, 08:34 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    idnominal - I was trying to find your post. Your post was the inspiration that had me move my Envoy from the garage to down at the remote ground mount, went from 0 bars on every micro to 5 bars.

                    Last edited by tyab; 08-08-2017, 04:31 PM.

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