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Migrating from NEM 1.0 to NEM 2.0 (NEM-ST) - SDG&e

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  • Migrating from NEM 1.0 to NEM 2.0 (NEM-ST) - SDG&e

    I have what is probably a fairly unique situation. We now have an EV that we charge at home and have decided to upgrade our system to cover the extra load. Need about 1.5 more kW in addition to my current 5.4 kW.

    Doing the research, I've discovered if we add more than 1kW, we will be migrated from NEM1.0 to NEM 2, also known as the NEM-ST(Successor Tariff). I've finally managed to figure out how this will affect us as far as the installation fee ($132) and how the non-bypassable charges (NBCs) work (adds about $9/mo to the bill). The only mystery still remaining is the TOU-2 (Time of Use) migration. We are currently on a tiered rate and, from what I've seen, the option to go to TOU is an IQ test, clearly a bad deal since on the tiered rate you rarely if ever reach the second tier, which is less than the TOU peak rate, assuming your system is sized correctly. It appears that 'everyone' will be required to go to TOU by April 2018. But there looks to be an opt-out option if your system is installed before then and you will be grandfathered into the tiered rate for 5 years. What's not clear is whether or not this applies to NEM-2 customers. SDG&E's website is unclear about this and there are a couple of vendor sites on the web that say NEM-2 customers are included.

    Should we not fall under the grandfathering with NEM-2, we will probably just add 1 kW and stay on NEM-1. SDG&E refuses to answer the question, claiming final approval won't be received from the PUC until somewhere around December.

    The TOU rate would make upgrading the system completely non-cost effective. Anyone have any experience here or more complete info?
    Thanks

  • #2
    Originally posted by ssheppard View Post
    The TOU rate would make upgrading the system completely non-cost effective.
    I'm absolutely no expert, but are you sure you need the extra production? You might want to look at EV-TOU-2 and staying at NEM 1.0 and your current system if you can charge on super off-peak.

    I haven't seen any evidence that says NEM 1.0 can stay on tiered rates for 5 years. They can stay on whatever TOU plan they opt into by tomorrow, but what happens to tiered in the future is very uncertain AFAIK.

    Comment


    • #3
      More later, but the bad news I think is that you need to convert to the EV-TOU-2 plan by tomorrow if you want to lock in the very favorable peak hours. The "IQ test" is recognizing that anything you push back into the grid during summer peak hours is worth twice what you consume, so if you are generally a net generator during the day, the plan is highly favorable in its current incarnation. Missing the July 28 deadline means (it hink)) that when the TOU peak is redefined to be later in the evening, you could end up worse off than you are under the tiered plan.

      The 1 kW limit is an AC output limit I think, so you might be able to get up to something like 1.2 kW more DC rating without triggering the new interconnect agreement. Worth investigating with SDG&E, but I'd be looking hard for a way to stay on NEM 1.0 in your situation.
      Last edited by sensij; 07-27-2017, 07:16 PM.
      CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

      Comment


      • #4
        The EV-TOU rate would raise my bill by about $52/mo instead of $60, so being able to go to EV-TOU1 would make sense, but going with any TOU2 plan means you're then paying around $.48/kW for 3pm-9pm while only getting credited at ~$.22kW for your generation (bad deal). EV rate (super-off-peak) is around $.19.

        As for the 7/28 deadline, I was told yesterday when I talked to the SDG&E NEM representative that I should have gotten a letter explaining that. When I said I hadn't, she couldn't figure out why and finally said the letter only went to about 15k customers and that I should get a letter eventually with a different date. The SDG&E document https:
        //www.sdge.com/clean-energy/time-use-period-grandfathering-net-energy-metering-customers seems to have conflicting info about grandfathering, referring it to "TOU period grandfathering" but also containing the following:

        Note the paragraph under NEM-ST that begins with the following (couldn't cut and paste for some reason):

        Customers who receive Permission to Operate before the implementation of SDG&E

        Looks like I can pick the tiered rate as well as the two TOU plans before Dec. 1. No real answer about whether or not the tiered rate can be grandfathered for 5 years.
        Last edited by ssheppard; 07-27-2017, 10:35 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Many or most folks on tiered rates exceed 130 % of basic billing period allowance most of the time, sometimes and not uncommonly by a factor of 2 or 3. Tiered rates are a relative deal for low users, but up until now, and maybe even now, if a user can make the 07/28/2017 cut, T.O.U. rates for large(r) uses were and maybe still can be (if you make the cut) a better deal than tiered (which is going away "at some point" anyway), particularly and especially if you can minimize use in the peak time periods of current T.O.U. That current T.O.U can be a better deal (note that under the current tiered rates for users w/PV systems, peak summer rates only apply for ~ 900 hrs. per yr. out of 8,760 hrs.), particularly if you can shut everything or a lot of stuff off during those (peak) hours and generate and push as much back to the grid as possible. The fly in the ointment is at the end of 5 yrs. (after PTO - Not from the time you sign on to T.O.U.) you come off the old T.O.U. times. By then, I'd expect the rate scenery will be much different, but neither I nor anyone else has a clue what it'll look like. Things will change anyway and maybe at some point 5 yrs. of steady T.O.U. time schedule will be a good deal in retrospect. As for system size increase, I believe it's 1 kW STC, but if some others say otherwise, I'd have nothing to back up my claim.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm not sure I agree with your first statement. Our overall usage is about 24kW/day and have only been pushed into tier 2 in one month over the last couple of years. I agree that the current TOU schedule can be more favorable than the tiered rate, but the TOU2 rate is a BIG loser. Trying to get a definitive answer from SDG&E on whether I can stay on tiered rates or the current TOU. Depending on what they say, we may upgrade the whole 1.5kW and go to the TOU1 rate if we can keep it for 5 years.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ssheppard View Post
              I'm not sure I agree with your first statement. Our overall usage is about 24kW/day and have only been pushed into tier 2 in one month over the last couple of years. I agree that the current TOU schedule can be more favorable than the tiered rate, but the TOU2 rate is a BIG loser. Trying to get a definitive answer from SDG&E on whether I can stay on tiered rates or the current TOU. Depending on what they say, we may upgrade the whole 1.5kW and go to the TOU1 rate if we can keep it for 5 years.
              I think you are misunderstanding TOU2. On the current hours, everything I generate from 12 to 6 pm gets $0.50/kWh credit. Everything I consume from 12 am to 5 am is only costing me 0.22 (or something close to that). I can fully offset the cost of my energy with a system that only generates 70% of the consumed kWh. Granted, this is a moot point after tomorrow because the new hours suck the life out of this deal, but for those who get in, they will enjoy it for the next 5 years.

              There are two different grandfathering periods taking effect... One relating to the availability of schedule DR for NEM-ST customers, the other relating to the availability of earlier peak hours for all NEM and NEM-ST costumers. When you are talking with SDG&E, make sure you are clear on which one they are talking about.
              Last edited by sensij; 07-27-2017, 10:46 PM.
              CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by sensij View Post

                I think you are misunderstanding TOU2. On the current hours, everything I generate from 12 to 6 pm gets $0.50/kWh credit. Everything I consume from 12 am to 5 am is only costing me 0.22 (or something close to that). I can fully offset the cost of my energy with a system that only generates 70% of the consumed kWh. Granted, this is a moot point after tomorrow because the new hours suck the life out of this deal, but for those who get in, they will enjoy it for the next 5 years.

                There are two different grandfathering periods taking effect... One relating to the availability of schedule DR for NEM-ST customers, the other relating to the availability of earlier peak hours for all NEM and NEM-ST costumers. When you are talking with SDG&E, make sure you are clear on which one they are talking about.
                Sensij and everyone else, including Escondido Charlie: If you haven't seen this yet, go to aurorasolar.com, go to the blog, and at the bottom of the list of blog entries click on the last blog entry, "The ultimate guide to NEM 2.0 part 1, non-bypassable charges".

                If that blog entry is correct, it dissipates a lot of the fog.

                I caught it. You help skin it. It's for PG & E users but I bet it's about the same for all I.O.U customers. There's a math error in the example of $1.00, but it does seem to clear things up. I'll be trying to make sense of it tomorrow and if it makes sense to me, figure out how to get it onto a spreadsheet.
                Last edited by J.P.M.; 07-27-2017, 11:22 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  My understanding of TOU2 is the peak period ($.50 kWh) is going to be either 3pm-9pm or 4pm-9pm which makes it a bad deal for solar customers no matter what. But I agree the current TOU schedule can be a good deal. As far as tomorrow's 'deadline' is concerned, it was pretty clear when I talked to her that the letter offering the customer the chance to change to TOU with a 7/28 deadline is not real. When I told her I had never gotten the letter, she looked up my account and, at first, said that it indeed it hadn't been sent. Then after checking around she came back and admitted that the letter only went to some customers (around 15,000) and the rest would be getting a different letter later with a different date. I know several solar customers in my neighborhood and none of them received the alleged letter. I only knew about it because one neighbor got a letter from his solar supplier (ASI Hastings) telling him to do nothing. I'd love to see a copy.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ssheppard View Post
                    My understanding of TOU2 is the peak period ($.50 kWh) is going to be either 3pm-9pm or 4pm-9pm which makes it a bad deal for solar customers no matter what. But I agree the current TOU schedule can be a good deal. As far as tomorrow's 'deadline' is concerned, it was pretty clear when I talked to her that the letter offering the customer the chance to change to TOU with a 7/28 deadline is not real. When I told her I had never gotten the letter, she looked up my account and, at first, said that it indeed it hadn't been sent. Then after checking around she came back and admitted that the letter only went to some customers (around 15,000) and the rest would be getting a different letter later with a different date. I know several solar customers in my neighborhood and none of them received the alleged letter. I only knew about it because one neighbor got a letter from his solar supplier (ASI Hastings) telling him to do nothing. I'd love to see a copy.

                    That's the plan, but I suspect the eventual times are more a function of what the POCOs can talk/bribe the CPUC into as well as what's the best revenue enhancer rather than a primary SDG & E goal of screwing its customers. It's just business. The time/rates differences lead to a difference in PV system revenue ( or bill offset per STC kW, old time/rate to new time/rate of about ~ a 20+ % drop in system bill offset revenue for SDG & E's DR-SES tariff schedule.

                    Thanx for the Interesting info. I believe what you're writing and I'm not surprised. Still, the 07/28/17 date is published.
                    Last edited by J.P.M.; 07-27-2017, 11:32 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

                      Sensij and everyone else, including Escondido Charlie: If you haven't seen this yet, go to aurorasolar.com, go to the blog, and at the bottom of the list of blog entries click on the last blog entry, "The ultimate guide to NEM 2.0 part 1, non-bypassable charges".

                      If that blog entry is correct, it dissipates a lot of the fog.

                      I caught it. You help skin it. It's for PG & E users but I bet it's about the same for all I.O.U customers. There's a math error in the example of $1.00, but it does seem to clear things up. I'll be trying to make sense of it tomorrow and if it makes sense to me, figure out how to get it onto a spreadsheet.
                      While the Aurora write up makes sense, it is dated before the CPUC agreed to a rehearing specifically on the NBC calculation method. So, while it may be where things end up, it isn't official yet.
                      CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post


                        That's the plan, but I suspect the eventual times are more a function of what the POCOs can talk/bribe the CPUC into as well as what's the best revenue enhancer rather than a primary SDG & E goal of screwing its customers. It's just business. The time/rates differences lead to a difference in PV system revenue ( or bill offset per STC kW, old time/rate to new time/rate of about ~ a 20+ % drop in system bill offset revenue for SDG & E's DR-SES tariff schedule.

                        Thanx for the Interesting info. I believe what you're writing and I'm not surprised. Still, the 07/28/17 date is published.
                        Agreed. Nothing is official until the PUC's final ruling. In the meantime, I'll update when I hear a definitive answer for SDG&E regarding the letter and the 'deadline'.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

                          Sensij and everyone else, including Escondido Charlie: If you haven't seen this yet, go to aurorasolar.com, go to the blog, and at the bottom of the list of blog entries click on the last blog entry, "The ultimate guide to NEM 2.0 part 1, non-bypassable charges".

                          If that blog entry is correct, it dissipates a lot of the fog.

                          I caught it. You help skin it. It's for PG & E users but I bet it's about the same for all I.O.U customers. There's a math error in the example of $1.00, but it does seem to clear things up. I'll be trying to make sense of it tomorrow and if it makes sense to me, figure out how to get it onto a spreadsheet.
                          I read what is written. I understand exactly how it is described, But my bills (2 with NBC) does not match this description.Nor does it match sensj latest bill with 3 kWh subject to NBC.
                          8 kWp gnd;SE 7600A;P400;Hanwha Q.PLUS L-G4.2 335W

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CharlieEscCA View Post

                            I read what is written. I understand exactly how it is described, But my bills (2 with NBC) does not match this description.Nor does it match sensj latest bill with 3 kWh subject to NBC.
                            I understand what you write. I'm still digging/looking for more information. Found this. Mentioned it for information purposes as it's a better descriptor than I've seen elsewhere so far, including from SDG & E. As usual, take what you want. Scrap the rest.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ssheppard View Post

                              Agreed. Nothing is official until the PUC's final ruling. In the meantime, I'll update when I hear a definitive answer for SDG&E regarding the letter and the 'deadline'.
                              Thank you in advance for the continued info.

                              Comment

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